4 ms·

I've really wondered how one can be charged with Drunk Driving. Follow me out on this. I work in Academia. There's signs everywhere about consent. "Women can'

by kefka 10y ago

I've really wondered how one can be charged with Drunk Driving. Follow me out on this. I work in Academia. There's signs everywhere about consent. "Women can't give consent when drunk" is the canard. In Indiana, that's not the law. But in many states, that's true. Now, if someone cannot give consent to do something, or sign legal documents, how can it be legal to charge someone with a drunk driving charge? The decision to drive was not based in consent, but instead based in intoxication. Therefore they were not in the right state of mind, either to decide to drive or drive. Then again, I also think that bars with parking lots are a significant issue as well, as it encourages patrons to drive there, drink (possibly to drunk) and then leave in their vehicle.

Avshalom 10y ago
It's a question of who is the victim. If I sign away my house while drunk, I'm getting fucked. If I run over you in a car while drunk, you're getting fucked.
- kefka 10y ago
  One area which I'm thinking about which entails drugs and non-consent is in a hospital after a wreck. Someone's on pain drip, and insurance goon one of shows up, asking for papers to be signed. Signing those would be invalid. No informed consent was given, due to being in a mind-altered state due to pharmaceuticals. It's likely going to be a long court case, but there is precedent in having these types of coerced actions (signature) rescinded. My argument was that drunk driving was made in a coerced state of mind. The journey to "drunk" is one thing, but there certainly is question about actual liability.
  - Avshalom 10y ago
    but again, the victim in the first case is you, the victim in the second case is not you. Also yes in a better world getting people to sign shit from a hospital bed absolutely shouldn't leave them liable. I don't know exactly how many people have been bankrupt because an ambulance drove them to the ER but I know it's a hell of a lot higher than any sense of justice should allow.
jaclaz 10y ago
>Then again, I also think that bars with parking lots are a significant issue as well, as it encourages patrons to drive there, drink (possibly to drunk) and then leave in their vehicle. I somehow have the feeling that bars WITHOUT parking lots will have less clients ... A solution could be bars with parking lots 1 mile away and courtesy bikes, but I guess that cycling accidents and bycicle thefts would have an instant surge ... More seriously, you drive to the bar parking lot, and while you are perfectly sober, you decide to get drunk (beyond legal limits). While you may well be right that the decision to drive is based on intoxication, the decision to get intoxicated is taken based on consent, knowing that you got there driving a car... AFAICU legal limits are fairly low so you should be sober enough when you order the "yet another" drink.
- gman2345 10y ago
  You can get a DUI on a bicycle too. You can even get one on a horse.
wfo 10y ago
The point with consent is that you cannot accurately asses consent of a very drunk person. So if she is very intoxicated and says "yes" you should not assume that's real consent. You should make sure she gets home safe and leave your number for her in the morning if she still wants it. People can certainly consent while drunk, they can commit crimes while drunk as well. Also our public services practically beg people to drive drunk, most public transit in most cities completely or mostly shuts down shortly before or exactly when the bars close.

by kefka 10y ago

Avshalom 10y ago

It's a question of who is the victim. If I sign away my house while drunk, I'm getting fucked. If I run over you in a car while drunk, you're getting fucked.

kefka 10y ago
One area which I'm thinking about which entails drugs and non-consent is in a hospital after a wreck. Someone's on pain drip, and insurance goon one of shows up, asking for papers to be signed. Signing those would be invalid. No informed consent was given, due to being in a mind-altered state due to pharmaceuticals. It's likely going to be a long court case, but there is precedent in having these types of coerced actions (signature) rescinded. My argument was that drunk driving was made in a coerced state of mind. The journey to "drunk" is one thing, but there certainly is question about actual liability.
- Avshalom 10y ago
  but again, the victim in the first case is you, the victim in the second case is not you. Also yes in a better world getting people to sign shit from a hospital bed absolutely shouldn't leave them liable. I don't know exactly how many people have been bankrupt because an ambulance drove them to the ER but I know it's a hell of a lot higher than any sense of justice should allow.

jaclaz 10y ago

>Then again, I also think that bars with parking lots are a significant issue as well, as it encourages patrons to drive there, drink (possibly to drunk) and then leave in their vehicle. I somehow have the feeling that bars WITHOUT parking lots will have less clients ... A solution could be bars with parking lots 1 mile away and courtesy bikes, but I guess that cycling accidents and bycicle thefts would have an instant surge ... More seriously, you drive to the bar parking lot, and while you are perfectly sober, you decide to get drunk (beyond legal limits). While you may well be right that the decision to drive is based on intoxication, the decision to get intoxicated is taken based on consent, knowing that you got there driving a car... AFAICU legal limits are fairly low so you should be sober enough when you order the "yet another" drink.

gman2345 10y ago
You can get a DUI on a bicycle too. You can even get one on a horse.

wfo 10y ago

The point with consent is that you cannot accurately asses consent of a very drunk person. So if she is very intoxicated and says "yes" you should not assume that's real consent. You should make sure she gets home safe and leave your number for her in the morning if she still wants it. People can certainly consent while drunk, they can commit crimes while drunk as well. Also our public services practically beg people to drive drunk, most public transit in most cities completely or mostly shuts down shortly before or exactly when the bars close.