6 ms·

I don't think any of the mainstream Desktop Environments (Unity, KDE/Plasma, Gnome3) or even some of the second-tier DEs (MATE, xfce, lxde) on Linux these days

I don't think any of the mainstream Desktop Environments (Unity, KDE/Plasma, Gnome3) or even some of the second-tier DEs (MATE, xfce, lxde) on Linux these days are that far off. The GUI experience on Linux suffers mostly from inconsistency when using applications written with different toolkits, awful font rendering, and a general sense of being in the uncanny valley if you're used to other desktops environments. My first computer in the mid 90's was running Linux on the desktop, and aside from a smattering of Windows here and there for games throughout the years, I've mostly stuck with it. Using Windows and OSX isn't some revelation in usability these days. OSX is more aesthetically pleasing, and a bit more consistent I think, but otherwise I don't find it profoundly better than the Linux options. I don't think it's more discoverable, and certainly hasn't been more stable in my experience- and there are definitely features I miss going from Linux to OSX on the desktop.

Loic 10y ago
Two years ago, I bought a Macbook Air to my wife after she complained that she was not able to make nice photo books with the software available on Linux (Ubuntu). Since then, she considers that Gnome (she does not it is Gnome, for her it is Linux) is way more user friendly than the Mac. She has been annoyed many times by the way her Mac is running. One day she lost all her books because of a new version if iPhoto which suddenly requires you to have a kind of remote on Apple servers, the spreadsheet/writer tool is really bad at opening Excel and Word documents, the email client has very small fonts, etc... For basic day-to-day usage, we found that Windows/Gnome/Macos are basically at the same level of consistency/quality. You can complain against some stuff on each side, they have inconsistencies on each side, but at the end of the day, one is not any more really better than the other, but she hates the fact that she has no ideas why sometimes on the Mac it does not work.
- bkor 10y ago
  Has she managed to make photo books on Linux? Which software?
  - Loic 10y ago
    We live in Germany and we were using the services of Pixum[0]. This is not free software and the Linux installer is working correctly. [0]: https://www.pixum.de https://www.pixum.de
m45t3r 10y ago
> The GUI experience on Linux suffers mostly from inconsistency when using applications written with different toolkits This is true, however Windows suffers from the same problem (and OSX too, however in a minor degree). > awful font rendering Only by default maybe. I did tweak my fontconfig (just some symlinks available in /etc/fonts/conf.avail) and IMO the font rendering in my Linux systems are better than my Windows systems (even after tweaking Windows ClearType). There is the fact that some applications does not support fontconfig, however I can't think anyone that I use daily at least.
- XorNot 10y ago
  The infinality fontconfig patch completely fixes this, but no distribution ships it because of patent encumberence.
  - floatboth 10y ago
    Hmm, the FreeBSD port print/freetype2 has LCD_FILTERING ("Sub-pixel rendering (patented)") enabled by default since 27 Nov 2014. infinality is obsolete. Freetype 2.7.0 ships a new interpreter (that's… based on infinality. but faster and simpler) http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-devel/2016-07/msg00091.html http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-devel/2016-07/...
    - XorNot 10y ago
      I'll have to check if I'm missing something but I haven't been happy with the effect on Ubuntu despite hearing this for a while.
- ENTP 10y ago
  You are absolutely right. Theres a whole bunch of apps that are 'blurry' when running on a retina display.
fsloth 10y ago
"The GUI experience on Linux suffers mostly from inconsistency when using applications written with different toolkits" I have never understood the claim different software should be stuffed into the same user interface paradigm. Mainly it's an artifact of the encumbrance the software stack we use to compose user interfaces imposes on us. OS level components should have the same look and feel. Otherwise I see it as a bonus that different applications look and behave differently. I see no added value for the user if, say, Spotify and Word used the same toolkit.
- htns 10y ago
  I agree completely. Most big desktop applications make no attempt to conform to platform look and I have never heard people complain of that.
- rebeccaskinner 10y ago
  I was thinking more specifically of things like having to configure HiDPI settings differently for Qt and GTK, for example. There are also some copybuffer inconsistencies at times. It's not a big deal for anyone who is motivated to deal with it, but probably irritating enough to make some people give up early on even if they would otherwise like having a system that's configured properly.
  - fsloth 10y ago
    Oh yes, I agree, DPI settings should be global accross the system as much as possible and copy buffer should definetly work consistently. Generally it's the application's responsibility to implement the tie in to these platform systems - on the interface level that should preferably not be tied inseparably to any UI code). To me however, this is on a different architectural level than how the UI itself is inplemented (which, technically, is just motion graphics with hotspots, but psychologically is the most important part for most users).
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  Yes. I have never got that insistence on UI nativity. Is there any OS where it's actually practical to only use programs that conform exactly to the vendor's UI style? All the major desktop OSes depend on tons of "non-native" programs to actually do work. Android usually requires some, and I'm not sure about iOS as I've never seriously used it, but I would guess the case is similar there. It seems like "must be UI native" is a way for Mac fanboys to try to enforce their preferred design paradigm on otherwise-uninterested people.
tornadoboy55 10y ago
Check out Elementary OS and their Pantheon DE for consistency. One of the few distros that actually has (sane) designers onboard and adheres to the outline set by those designers.
- shadowfacts 10y ago
  Has anyone gotten the Pantheon DE running on other distros?
  - KernlPanik 10y ago
    It works on Arch, but needs some tweaking. I tried it a while ago but decided I didn't like it so I don't know the current state.
- ENTP 10y ago
  Last weekend, a friend of mine asked me to "wipe his laptop". When i asked him why, he replied he had viruses, it was slow etc. After asking him what he used it for he said "web and nothing else". He agreed to try something new and I installed elementary OS for him. First install i'd done. After 21 years of linux experience i have to say it's a really sweet desktop. He was super happy and couldnt believe how "fast his laptop was". Hats off to the elementary OS people. Its a sweet system.
brightball 10y ago
I'm using Fedora 25 as of 2 days ago along with some repos that were listed from the Korora project. I've been blown away by how smooth this experience has been so far. This is the first time in years of experimenting with desktop/laptop linux where I've been able to say that it's close enough to gain mainstream popularity.

Loic 10y ago

Two years ago, I bought a Macbook Air to my wife after she complained that she was not able to make nice photo books with the software available on Linux (Ubuntu). Since then, she considers that Gnome (she does not it is Gnome, for her it is Linux) is way more user friendly than the Mac. She has been annoyed many times by the way her Mac is running. One day she lost all her books because of a new version if iPhoto which suddenly requires you to have a kind of remote on Apple servers, the spreadsheet/writer tool is really bad at opening Excel and Word documents, the email client has very small fonts, etc... For basic day-to-day usage, we found that Windows/Gnome/Macos are basically at the same level of consistency/quality. You can complain against some stuff on each side, they have inconsistencies on each side, but at the end of the day, one is not any more really better than the other, but she hates the fact that she has no ideas why sometimes on the Mac it does not work.

bkor 10y ago
Has she managed to make photo books on Linux? Which software?
- Loic 10y ago
  We live in Germany and we were using the services of Pixum[0]. This is not free software and the Linux installer is working correctly. [0]: https://www.pixum.de https://www.pixum.de

m45t3r 10y ago

> The GUI experience on Linux suffers mostly from inconsistency when using applications written with different toolkits This is true, however Windows suffers from the same problem (and OSX too, however in a minor degree). > awful font rendering Only by default maybe. I did tweak my fontconfig (just some symlinks available in /etc/fonts/conf.avail) and IMO the font rendering in my Linux systems are better than my Windows systems (even after tweaking Windows ClearType). There is the fact that some applications does not support fontconfig, however I can't think anyone that I use daily at least.

XorNot 10y ago
The infinality fontconfig patch completely fixes this, but no distribution ships it because of patent encumberence.
- floatboth 10y ago
  Hmm, the FreeBSD port print/freetype2 has LCD_FILTERING ("Sub-pixel rendering (patented)") enabled by default since 27 Nov 2014. infinality is obsolete. Freetype 2.7.0 ships a new interpreter (that's… based on infinality. but faster and simpler) http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-devel/2016-07/msg00091.html http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-devel/2016-07/...
  - XorNot 10y ago
    I'll have to check if I'm missing something but I haven't been happy with the effect on Ubuntu despite hearing this for a while.
ENTP 10y ago
You are absolutely right. Theres a whole bunch of apps that are 'blurry' when running on a retina display.

fsloth 10y ago

"The GUI experience on Linux suffers mostly from inconsistency when using applications written with different toolkits" I have never understood the claim different software should be stuffed into the same user interface paradigm. Mainly it's an artifact of the encumbrance the software stack we use to compose user interfaces imposes on us. OS level components should have the same look and feel. Otherwise I see it as a bonus that different applications look and behave differently. I see no added value for the user if, say, Spotify and Word used the same toolkit.

htns 10y ago
I agree completely. Most big desktop applications make no attempt to conform to platform look and I have never heard people complain of that.
rebeccaskinner 10y ago
I was thinking more specifically of things like having to configure HiDPI settings differently for Qt and GTK, for example. There are also some copybuffer inconsistencies at times. It's not a big deal for anyone who is motivated to deal with it, but probably irritating enough to make some people give up early on even if they would otherwise like having a system that's configured properly.
- fsloth 10y ago
  Oh yes, I agree, DPI settings should be global accross the system as much as possible and copy buffer should definetly work consistently. Generally it's the application's responsibility to implement the tie in to these platform systems - on the interface level that should preferably not be tied inseparably to any UI code). To me however, this is on a different architectural level than how the UI itself is inplemented (which, technically, is just motion graphics with hotspots, but psychologically is the most important part for most users).
cookiecaper 10y ago
Yes. I have never got that insistence on UI nativity. Is there any OS where it's actually practical to only use programs that conform exactly to the vendor's UI style? All the major desktop OSes depend on tons of "non-native" programs to actually do work. Android usually requires some, and I'm not sure about iOS as I've never seriously used it, but I would guess the case is similar there. It seems like "must be UI native" is a way for Mac fanboys to try to enforce their preferred design paradigm on otherwise-uninterested people.

tornadoboy55 10y ago

Check out Elementary OS and their Pantheon DE for consistency. One of the few distros that actually has (sane) designers onboard and adheres to the outline set by those designers.

shadowfacts 10y ago
Has anyone gotten the Pantheon DE running on other distros?
- KernlPanik 10y ago
  It works on Arch, but needs some tweaking. I tried it a while ago but decided I didn't like it so I don't know the current state.
ENTP 10y ago
Last weekend, a friend of mine asked me to "wipe his laptop". When i asked him why, he replied he had viruses, it was slow etc. After asking him what he used it for he said "web and nothing else". He agreed to try something new and I installed elementary OS for him. First install i'd done. After 21 years of linux experience i have to say it's a really sweet desktop. He was super happy and couldnt believe how "fast his laptop was". Hats off to the elementary OS people. Its a sweet system.

brightball 10y ago

I'm using Fedora 25 as of 2 days ago along with some repos that were listed from the Korora project. I've been blown away by how smooth this experience has been so far. This is the first time in years of experimenting with desktop/laptop linux where I've been able to say that it's close enough to gain mainstream popularity.