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This is irrelevant to the industry. And I feel offended by attacking the industry. Banking, retail, fashion, you will get such comments everywhere. A lot of men

This is irrelevant to the industry. And I feel offended by attacking the industry. Banking, retail, fashion, you will get such comments everywhere. A lot of men are jerks indeed but this is a social problem, not an industry one.

coldtea 10y ago
Programming though attracts all sorts of introverted guys with lacking social skills and a bad track record with relationships (in school etc). (And to prevent knee-jerk responses, I don't mean that everyone or even most are like that. Just that a lot are like that, which has even made it into developer folklore and is a well known stereotype with basis in reality). The kind of person who would comment on a woman's developer presentation that they "masturbated watching the video of her presentation" (!!!). Other industries, such as banking, tend to attract other kinds of people (more jock-ey, or "in-crowd"), which have other issues (more sexual assault, rape, entitlement, etc).
fahadkhan 10y ago
It being a social problem means that is also an industry problem, by definition.
johnfn 10y ago
So because the problem is bigger than the author implied, we shouldn't try to solve it?
toor2 10y ago
>Banking, retail, fashion, you will get such comments everywhere. A lot of men are jerks indeed but this is a social problem, not an industry one. This is a moral equivalence fallacy, a red herring of sorts. You are saying this women's frustration with her industry is irrelevant to her industry because a handful of unrelated indusries have problems that could be similar. This argument ignores that CS/IT is largely male and notorious are for this disgusting behavior. It's one of the only industries that had a greater percentage of women in the 80s than it does now. There are industries that do not suffer from this problem at all or nearly to the same degree. In full, this women's expirence is directly related to overt mysogeny in industry culture and labeling it as a "social problem" willfully ignores this problem in tech thus perpetuating it further.
- FeepingCreature 10y ago
  Notoriety is not direct evidence. People can be notorious without being guilty. I don't know whether other fields with a similar proportion of men have similar problems. Studies highly welcome. Hearsay somewhat less.
  - toor2 10y ago
    >Notoriety is not direct evidence. People can be notorious without being guilty. This argument is a fallacy fallacy. Sure I made a unsubstantiated claim but it doesn't contradict or invalidate my general argument. >I don't know weather other fields with a similar proportion of men have similar problems. How is this relevant? I get the feeling that you read my comment looking for some insignificant hyperbole you could attack in order to derail my general argument to perpetuate your willful ignorance enabled by your male priveldge. >Studies highly welcome How about listening to the _women_ in tech like the one who wrote the blog post we are commenting on?
agounaris 10y ago
A small reply to all the comments. Nope a social problem is by definition a social problem which by definition is applicable to all industries. Men will always want women and idiots will always treat women with disrespect no matter if they are programmers, doctors, footballers or dancers. You don't solve the problem by attacking the tech industry. It's a matter of education, mental health and society principles. I kinda of agree that you should start from somewhere, but this somewhere should be the schools and the family.

coldtea 10y ago

Programming though attracts all sorts of introverted guys with lacking social skills and a bad track record with relationships (in school etc). (And to prevent knee-jerk responses, I don't mean that everyone or even most are like that. Just that a lot are like that, which has even made it into developer folklore and is a well known stereotype with basis in reality). The kind of person who would comment on a woman's developer presentation that they "masturbated watching the video of her presentation" (!!!). Other industries, such as banking, tend to attract other kinds of people (more jock-ey, or "in-crowd"), which have other issues (more sexual assault, rape, entitlement, etc).

fahadkhan 10y ago

It being a social problem means that is also an industry problem, by definition.

johnfn 10y ago

So because the problem is bigger than the author implied, we shouldn't try to solve it?

toor2 10y ago

>Banking, retail, fashion, you will get such comments everywhere. A lot of men are jerks indeed but this is a social problem, not an industry one. This is a moral equivalence fallacy, a red herring of sorts. You are saying this women's frustration with her industry is irrelevant to her industry because a handful of unrelated indusries have problems that could be similar. This argument ignores that CS/IT is largely male and notorious are for this disgusting behavior. It's one of the only industries that had a greater percentage of women in the 80s than it does now. There are industries that do not suffer from this problem at all or nearly to the same degree. In full, this women's expirence is directly related to overt mysogeny in industry culture and labeling it as a "social problem" willfully ignores this problem in tech thus perpetuating it further.

FeepingCreature 10y ago
Notoriety is not direct evidence. People can be notorious without being guilty. I don't know whether other fields with a similar proportion of men have similar problems. Studies highly welcome. Hearsay somewhat less.
- toor2 10y ago
  >Notoriety is not direct evidence. People can be notorious without being guilty. This argument is a fallacy fallacy. Sure I made a unsubstantiated claim but it doesn't contradict or invalidate my general argument. >I don't know weather other fields with a similar proportion of men have similar problems. How is this relevant? I get the feeling that you read my comment looking for some insignificant hyperbole you could attack in order to derail my general argument to perpetuate your willful ignorance enabled by your male priveldge. >Studies highly welcome How about listening to the _women_ in tech like the one who wrote the blog post we are commenting on?

agounaris 10y ago

A small reply to all the comments. Nope a social problem is by definition a social problem which by definition is applicable to all industries. Men will always want women and idiots will always treat women with disrespect no matter if they are programmers, doctors, footballers or dancers. You don't solve the problem by attacking the tech industry. It's a matter of education, mental health and society principles. I kinda of agree that you should start from somewhere, but this somewhere should be the schools and the family.