5 ms·

No, I'm implying that sharing of propaganda channels should not be encouraged, because it makes them look legitimate.

by kbart 10y ago

RDeckard 10y ago
What about CNN, BBC and Western propaganda channels? Are you The Ministry of Truth?
- Arnt 10y ago
  Ad hominem here, blind faith in the beeb there, either way, Jack Ma has a point. Another posting on HN a few days ago said something like "noone will be able to beat the F-35 on cost". That cost is real. The F-35 doesn't become cheaper when RT runs story about it.
- kbart 10y ago
  CNN, BBC and probably all of Western media channels have their agenda, but none of them is straightforward propaganda with direct control by government as RT is. Don't make mistake here, there are no RT counterpart in West, despite RT trying very hard to "prove" otherwise.
  - chopin 10y ago
    Direct or indirect government control doesn't matter much for me. RT has the _advantage_ that it's overt.
  - kupaka 10y ago
    The US has Voice Of America, which serves a similar purpose: www.voanews.com.
  - RodericDay 10y ago
    Propaganda for a state that controls hands-on and directly will be managed hands-on and directly. Propaganda for a state that controls via economic incentives and backroom greasing will be handled via economic incentives and backroom greasing. I'm a South American living in Canada and I honestly find this effort of yours to get people to stop sharing RT hilarious. I watch american channels (or Al-Jazeera) for news about Russia (or the Middle East), and vice-versa. This works well. Hillary Clinton lost largely because the New York Times, your paper of record, assured people that she had in the bag and that they could stay home. Now people want to blame Russia for "hacking the election", and it's been reported so poorly by the New York Times and The Washington Post that 50% of liberals polled now believe that Russia hacked the vote tallies themselves. [0] This is very similar to how in the wake of 9/11, the ignorance about the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan was exploited to rally support for war in the former. Or how the torture report was buried. Take a step back and look at try to look at your posting in this topic objectively. You're fear-mongering and shaming, and not being persuasive. I encourage everyone to read this article by Emily Bartlett Hines about "How The Times Failed You" [1] [0] https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/12/27/belief-conspiracies-largely-depends-political-iden/ https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/12/27/belief-conspiracies... [1] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/01/how-the-times-failed-you https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/01/how-the-times-failed-...
    - kbart 10y ago
      "Take a step back and look at try to look at your posting in this topic objectively." I happen to live in a country that's bordering Russia and can see first handedly what damage propaganda causes, especially to minorities here. So sorry, I can't "step back and see objectively". Propaganda is a weapon and should not be tolerated as such.
      - RodericDay 10y ago
        I'm South American so I have first handedly seen how American propaganda works. It may be different from Russian propaganda, but your plea that people stop sharing RussiaToday, in absence of equal pleas against The New York Times, comes off as ignorant. You may be scared about Russian military aggression, but I beg you to compare how much military aggression the US and Russia are both engaged in right now. By the way, I decided to share the well-argued, well-cited article about the issues with pro-Clinton New York Times reporting on HackerNews, it got three upvotes, and then it got flagged to death. Consider that we may both be between a rock and a hard place.
  - talmand 10y ago
    I think I would list BBC up there under government controlled, but I don't necessarily discredit them because of it.
  - ionised 10y ago
    No, propaganda in the west is far more subtle and insidious that most people don't even realise they are bombarded with it on a daily basis.
akjainaj 10y ago
Is the NYT more legitimate than RT? What about the CNN? Don't make me laugh.
- iwintermute 10y ago
  They both are non legitimate - it's easy answer. shame that propaganda sounds somewhat russian - as if it's not possible or wide-spread in USA. What's interesting is that why there's no "start-up" that's focused on delivering factual news - real "independent" press that can accept push requests.
  - wamsachel 10y ago
    >What's interesting is that why there's no "start-up" that's focused on delivering factual news - real "independent" press that can accept push requests. What? There's a lot, they don't call themselves 'start-ups' they go by other terms such as 'listener supported'
    - iwintermute 10y ago
      Can you provide any examples?
      - wamsachel 10y ago
        democracynow.org https://zcomm.org/zmag/ https://zcomm.org/zmag/ http://www.congressionaldish.com/ http://www.congressionaldish.com/
nihonde 10y ago
As a former American now living in Japan, my perspective since leaving is that America has an edifice of "legitimate" news sources that serve as propaganda outlets by means of their focus and omissions. I lost count of the number of NYT/BBC/etc stories that misrepresent Japan and Asia in general in the context of geopolitics, popular culture, etc. Not to mention the overt election-steering by the NYT in its efforts to stimulate support for Clinton (which oddly continue to this day).
- ue_ 10y ago
  I'm quite interested in Japan (and wants to live there some day), mostly because I'm learning the language. What sort of things did you consider to be misrepresented? This question is from a position of complete ignorance, please don't feel like I'm doubting you.
  - nihonde 10y ago
    Some examples that leap to mind include: - Stories that drive the narrative that Japan is on the brink of war with China. News in Japan covers tensions with China, but also positive news about foreign relations. - Endless nonsense about poisonous food from Fukushima. - The protectionist sham of Toyota's "unintended acceleration" scandal. (It turns out it was old people who stamped on the gas, but it served the domestic auto industry's interests.) - All the stories about kids killing themselves in the foothills of Fujisan. - All the stories about wacky vending machines. In reality, they're pretty boring but useful and ubiquitous. - Stories about the activities of Tokyo Governor Koike that push the thesis that Japan is lagging behind the West in gender politics. - Nearly every piece by Motoko Rich in the NYT. Anyway, western media does a good job of avoiding outright untruths, but displays a frequent lack of nuance and a focus on things that aren't important in Japan. It makes me wonder why they feel the need to opine in the first place.
touristtam 10y ago
Then you can ban most media. Every single one of them being partisan at least (following an agenda).

No, I'm implying that sharing of propaganda channels should not be encouraged, because it makes them look legitimate.

by kbart 10y ago

No, I'm implying that sharing of propaganda channels should not be encouraged, because it makes them look legitimate.

RDeckard 10y ago

What about CNN, BBC and Western propaganda channels? Are you The Ministry of Truth?

Arnt 10y ago
Ad hominem here, blind faith in the beeb there, either way, Jack Ma has a point. Another posting on HN a few days ago said something like "noone will be able to beat the F-35 on cost". That cost is real. The F-35 doesn't become cheaper when RT runs story about it.
kbart 10y ago
CNN, BBC and probably all of Western media channels have their agenda, but none of them is straightforward propaganda with direct control by government as RT is. Don't make mistake here, there are no RT counterpart in West, despite RT trying very hard to "prove" otherwise.
- chopin 10y ago
  Direct or indirect government control doesn't matter much for me. RT has the _advantage_ that it's overt.
- kupaka 10y ago
  The US has Voice Of America, which serves a similar purpose: www.voanews.com.
- RodericDay 10y ago
  Propaganda for a state that controls hands-on and directly will be managed hands-on and directly. Propaganda for a state that controls via economic incentives and backroom greasing will be handled via economic incentives and backroom greasing. I'm a South American living in Canada and I honestly find this effort of yours to get people to stop sharing RT hilarious. I watch american channels (or Al-Jazeera) for news about Russia (or the Middle East), and vice-versa. This works well. Hillary Clinton lost largely because the New York Times, your paper of record, assured people that she had in the bag and that they could stay home. Now people want to blame Russia for "hacking the election", and it's been reported so poorly by the New York Times and The Washington Post that 50% of liberals polled now believe that Russia hacked the vote tallies themselves. [0] This is very similar to how in the wake of 9/11, the ignorance about the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan was exploited to rally support for war in the former. Or how the torture report was buried. Take a step back and look at try to look at your posting in this topic objectively. You're fear-mongering and shaming, and not being persuasive. I encourage everyone to read this article by Emily Bartlett Hines about "How The Times Failed You" [1] [0] https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/12/27/belief-conspiracies-largely-depends-political-iden/ https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/12/27/belief-conspiracies... [1] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/01/how-the-times-failed-you https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/01/how-the-times-failed-...
  - kbart 10y ago
    "Take a step back and look at try to look at your posting in this topic objectively." I happen to live in a country that's bordering Russia and can see first handedly what damage propaganda causes, especially to minorities here. So sorry, I can't "step back and see objectively". Propaganda is a weapon and should not be tolerated as such.
    - RodericDay 10y ago
      I'm South American so I have first handedly seen how American propaganda works. It may be different from Russian propaganda, but your plea that people stop sharing RussiaToday, in absence of equal pleas against The New York Times, comes off as ignorant. You may be scared about Russian military aggression, but I beg you to compare how much military aggression the US and Russia are both engaged in right now. By the way, I decided to share the well-argued, well-cited article about the issues with pro-Clinton New York Times reporting on HackerNews, it got three upvotes, and then it got flagged to death. Consider that we may both be between a rock and a hard place.
- talmand 10y ago
  I think I would list BBC up there under government controlled, but I don't necessarily discredit them because of it.
- ionised 10y ago
  No, propaganda in the west is far more subtle and insidious that most people don't even realise they are bombarded with it on a daily basis.

akjainaj 10y ago

Is the NYT more legitimate than RT? What about the CNN? Don't make me laugh.

iwintermute 10y ago
They both are non legitimate - it's easy answer. shame that propaganda sounds somewhat russian - as if it's not possible or wide-spread in USA. What's interesting is that why there's no "start-up" that's focused on delivering factual news - real "independent" press that can accept push requests.
- wamsachel 10y ago
  >What's interesting is that why there's no "start-up" that's focused on delivering factual news - real "independent" press that can accept push requests. What? There's a lot, they don't call themselves 'start-ups' they go by other terms such as 'listener supported'
  - iwintermute 10y ago
    Can you provide any examples?
    - wamsachel 10y ago
      democracynow.org https://zcomm.org/zmag/ https://zcomm.org/zmag/ http://www.congressionaldish.com/ http://www.congressionaldish.com/

nihonde 10y ago

As a former American now living in Japan, my perspective since leaving is that America has an edifice of "legitimate" news sources that serve as propaganda outlets by means of their focus and omissions. I lost count of the number of NYT/BBC/etc stories that misrepresent Japan and Asia in general in the context of geopolitics, popular culture, etc. Not to mention the overt election-steering by the NYT in its efforts to stimulate support for Clinton (which oddly continue to this day).

ue_ 10y ago
I'm quite interested in Japan (and wants to live there some day), mostly because I'm learning the language. What sort of things did you consider to be misrepresented? This question is from a position of complete ignorance, please don't feel like I'm doubting you.
- nihonde 10y ago
  Some examples that leap to mind include: - Stories that drive the narrative that Japan is on the brink of war with China. News in Japan covers tensions with China, but also positive news about foreign relations. - Endless nonsense about poisonous food from Fukushima. - The protectionist sham of Toyota's "unintended acceleration" scandal. (It turns out it was old people who stamped on the gas, but it served the domestic auto industry's interests.) - All the stories about kids killing themselves in the foothills of Fujisan. - All the stories about wacky vending machines. In reality, they're pretty boring but useful and ubiquitous. - Stories about the activities of Tokyo Governor Koike that push the thesis that Japan is lagging behind the West in gender politics. - Nearly every piece by Motoko Rich in the NYT. Anyway, western media does a good job of avoiding outright untruths, but displays a frequent lack of nuance and a focus on things that aren't important in Japan. It makes me wonder why they feel the need to opine in the first place.

touristtam 10y ago

Then you can ban most media. Every single one of them being partisan at least (following an agenda).