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There are a billion things against a sigil only language: it's near impossible to give you a helpful IDE (in a word-like language you can use autocomplete but h

by chx 10y ago

There are a billion things against a sigil only language: it's near impossible to give you a helpful IDE (in a word-like language you can use autocomplete but how do you give ideas whether the user should use @ or ^ at a given point?), it's near impossible to search for code examples and such (the other day I was looking for code in any language at all that uses /PZ/u as a regular expression without success), you need to think twice before using any of the standard shell utilities on them and so on.

avmich 10y ago
> it's near impossible to give you a helpful IDE (in a word-like language you can use autocomplete What autocomplete you need in J? For verbs and conjunctions which are at most 2 letters long? > how do you give ideas whether the user should use @ or ^ at a given point? In the same way as IDE helps you to choose . or exp() ? They are completely different concepts, how can you mix them? > it's near impossible to search for code examples and such I think it's a common problem for complex code examples, in any language. You may, though, search for comments. From http://www.jsoftware.com/help/jforc/foreword.htm#_Toc191734286 http://www.jsoftware.com/help/jforc/foreword.htm#_Toc1917342... : > C is a computer language; it lets you control the things the computer does. J is a language of computation: it lets you describe what needs to be done without getting bogged down in details I think it's a great help. J doesn't just reduces typing; it also reduces the amount of things one needs to keep in the head to solve the problem.
lokedhs 10y ago
When I implemented the GNU APL mode for Emacs, I tried to make it as much as an IDE as possible. I modelled it on SLIME, and it has a live connection to your runtime, and provides things like jump-to-definition and completion based on the functions available in the runtime. I even coerced SES (the Emacs spreadsheet) to act as an editor for large arrays. I would argue that I have suceeded at least partially, such that I can say that it's definitely possible to implement an IDE for APL.

by chx 10y ago

avmich 10y ago

> it's near impossible to give you a helpful IDE (in a word-like language you can use autocomplete What autocomplete you need in J? For verbs and conjunctions which are at most 2 letters long? > how do you give ideas whether the user should use @ or ^ at a given point? In the same way as IDE helps you to choose . or exp() ? They are completely different concepts, how can you mix them? > it's near impossible to search for code examples and such I think it's a common problem for complex code examples, in any language. You may, though, search for comments. From http://www.jsoftware.com/help/jforc/foreword.htm#_Toc191734286 http://www.jsoftware.com/help/jforc/foreword.htm#_Toc1917342... : > C is a computer language; it lets you control the things the computer does. J is a language of computation: it lets you describe what needs to be done without getting bogged down in details I think it's a great help. J doesn't just reduces typing; it also reduces the amount of things one needs to keep in the head to solve the problem.

lokedhs 10y ago

When I implemented the GNU APL mode for Emacs, I tried to make it as much as an IDE as possible. I modelled it on SLIME, and it has a live connection to your runtime, and provides things like jump-to-definition and completion based on the functions available in the runtime. I even coerced SES (the Emacs spreadsheet) to act as an editor for large arrays. I would argue that I have suceeded at least partially, such that I can say that it's definitely possible to implement an IDE for APL.