5 ms·

Can't say I speak for everyone but I mostly walk to get to places and drive when I have to. I live close enough to an ALDI to get most of my groceries by walkin

Can't say I speak for everyone but I mostly walk to get to places and drive when I have to. I live close enough to an ALDI to get most of my groceries by walking and I can walk to work too. Owning a car means always needing a parking space, going out to get gas, paying for insurance, inspections, etc, having to be capable of driving (because when I'm sauced on a Saturday night I really want to get greasy food, but I can't drive soooo...). If an autonomous car-share program cost about as much as the car payments and gas alone for the the amount we would use it, we would sell our car in a heartbeat. A car isn't much of a status symbol when most of your friends can't afford a nice one either. Kinda makes you look like a dick, in comparison.

frankc 10y ago
The thing is that this is really only true for people in dense urban environments. For instance, parking is not an issue in suburbia. There are use cases, like getting from your home to the train station, but it's not nearly as universal as it is for people who can currently get by with no car at all.
- dinkumthinkum 10y ago
  I think you're being too kind to the parent. This is true for a very small subset / archetype of people. The majority of the country has much different situations and desires than just walking to ALDI.
  - smnplk 10y ago
    Had to lookup ALDI on youtube. Their logo looked familiar to Hofer brand, then I found the wiki explanation. Aldi Süd operates as Hofer in Austria and Slovenia.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi
    - ghaff 10y ago
      They're a different branch of the family that owns Trader Joe's. In the US they're a super-discount food store--think in terms of a strategy for a limited inventory of canned goods and things in that vein intended to undercut Walmart.
notahacker 10y ago
New cars and executive cars and ludicrously thirsty sporty models sell well enough and secondhand Korean superminis badly enough to suggest manufacturers don't have too much to fear from people switching to alternative modes of car use on the ground of price. (I'm sure you could find a cheaper-to-run vehicle if you really wanted to too) And for commuters that need a car to get them to work at 8-9am and home around 5-6pm, the chance of a car sharing scheme working out cheaper than ownership is minimal, whether the cars drive themselves or not.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  What about when your commute, without any concern for parking, is 10 minutes, max? I doubt it would be that expensive. Besides, I would only opt for transport if the weather was shitty or I was tired (which is the current case today).
  - notahacker 10y ago
    > What about when your commute, without any concern for parking, is 10 minutes, max? I doubt it would be that expensive If you want a car at the precise time everybody else happens to be commuting and commuters are the principal users of on-demand car services, it doesn't really matter whether your commute is shorter than some of the others. It's one extra car needed to be available every day at the time when all the other cars happen to be in use and (like most of the rest of the cars in the commuter pool) it'll spend the rest of the day sat in a parking spot, costing little in mileage but plenty in depreciation. Of course if commuters needing to be around for the start of a normal work day aren't the principal user of the service, then cars can be used more efficiently throughout the day, but then they're not "competing with private car ownership" to any significant degree. For edge cases like you whose car use consists of occasional ten minute drives, it might already be cheaper to just take taxis/Ubers
    - wrsh07 10y ago
      In a self driving world, peak traffic will be served by buses. (Or subways in cities that can handle it) Like everything - high bandwidth vehicles will do the bulk of the work, and seamlessly trade off to "last mile" self driving small vehicles.
majormajor 10y ago
> A car isn't much of a status symbol when most of your friends can't afford a nice one either. Kinda makes you look like a dick, in comparison. Isn't that exactly what makes it a status symbol? Keeping up with the Joneses, and all -- it's one thing to not play the game, but that doesn't mean a lot of people don't, and this seems to just be agreeing with what makes it a status symbol. Most American cities are sufficiently un-dense that things like "always having to look for parking" aren't big deals. Laws ensure places have enough spaces (these policies are very pedestrian-unfriendly, but such places are more car-friendly than the dense coastal cities). Traffic is slower at rush hour but a non-issue any other time in these places. The average car these days lasts 10+ years. Perpetually renting cars is going to be seen as disadvantage for a lot of people who take out ~5 year loans and then can keep the cars for quite a while after finishing off their payments. Anecdotally I'd wager that people buy new cars more for the status, or for the change of having something new, than to replace something that just doesn't work anymore, nowdays.
- santaclaus 10y ago
  Ehhhh no one who is cool is into cars... having a nice fixie probably correlates more with who is getting tail than a relic from the 1920s.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > > A car isn't much of a status symbol when most of your friends can't afford a nice one either. Kinda makes you look like a dick, in comparison. > Isn't that exactly what makes it a status symbol? To be an effective status symbol, something has to be of higher status, but not too high a status. Gold chains are just gauche, despite how valuable they are. So too, once upon a time, having a cell phone.
  - Godel_unicode 10y ago
    I think the tricky part there is social context. There are social groups where gold chains are absolutely status symbols. You'd be hard-pressed to find an NFL receiver without one, for instance. Conversely, there are groups where being able to afford _not_ to own a car is a status symbol. Think "I live in a neighborhood where everything is walkable", or "I just throw money at Uber because it's easier and I can afford it". Anything is a potential status symbol, if a group subconsciously agrees that it is. If your group doesn't value humility then too-high-status isn't really a thing.
nunez 10y ago
Unfortunately most of the US isn't like Chicago or NYC.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Personally, I see very little unfortunate about it.
  - nunez 10y ago
    I agree; I moved out of NYC for a reason!
neumann 10y ago
I agree - car ownership is expensive. So we get by mostly on our bikes. Reasons we still have a car: - Moving big things - Shopping for big things - Camping - Driving out for the weekend to visit family 1.5 hours out of town - Baby in baby seat None of these things can easily be targeted by Uber. I rarely use taxis and uber, and my friend's that do, use it as replacement for public transport and not their car.
- emmanuel_1234 10y ago
  - Moving big things, Shopping for big things. Van rental (with driver) are a thing, at least where I live, where personal car ownership isn't really a thing. See for example: https://www.gogovan.com.hk/en/ https://www.gogovan.com.hk/en/ Big place to shop (e.g.: IKEA) offer delivery.

frankc 10y ago

The thing is that this is really only true for people in dense urban environments. For instance, parking is not an issue in suburbia. There are use cases, like getting from your home to the train station, but it's not nearly as universal as it is for people who can currently get by with no car at all.

dinkumthinkum 10y ago
I think you're being too kind to the parent. This is true for a very small subset / archetype of people. The majority of the country has much different situations and desires than just walking to ALDI.
- smnplk 10y ago
  Had to lookup ALDI on youtube. Their logo looked familiar to Hofer brand, then I found the wiki explanation. Aldi Süd operates as Hofer in Austria and Slovenia.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi
  - ghaff 10y ago
    They're a different branch of the family that owns Trader Joe's. In the US they're a super-discount food store--think in terms of a strategy for a limited inventory of canned goods and things in that vein intended to undercut Walmart.

notahacker 10y ago

New cars and executive cars and ludicrously thirsty sporty models sell well enough and secondhand Korean superminis badly enough to suggest manufacturers don't have too much to fear from people switching to alternative modes of car use on the ground of price. (I'm sure you could find a cheaper-to-run vehicle if you really wanted to too) And for commuters that need a car to get them to work at 8-9am and home around 5-6pm, the chance of a car sharing scheme working out cheaper than ownership is minimal, whether the cars drive themselves or not.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
What about when your commute, without any concern for parking, is 10 minutes, max? I doubt it would be that expensive. Besides, I would only opt for transport if the weather was shitty or I was tired (which is the current case today).
- notahacker 10y ago
  > What about when your commute, without any concern for parking, is 10 minutes, max? I doubt it would be that expensive If you want a car at the precise time everybody else happens to be commuting and commuters are the principal users of on-demand car services, it doesn't really matter whether your commute is shorter than some of the others. It's one extra car needed to be available every day at the time when all the other cars happen to be in use and (like most of the rest of the cars in the commuter pool) it'll spend the rest of the day sat in a parking spot, costing little in mileage but plenty in depreciation. Of course if commuters needing to be around for the start of a normal work day aren't the principal user of the service, then cars can be used more efficiently throughout the day, but then they're not "competing with private car ownership" to any significant degree. For edge cases like you whose car use consists of occasional ten minute drives, it might already be cheaper to just take taxis/Ubers
  - wrsh07 10y ago
    In a self driving world, peak traffic will be served by buses. (Or subways in cities that can handle it) Like everything - high bandwidth vehicles will do the bulk of the work, and seamlessly trade off to "last mile" self driving small vehicles.

majormajor 10y ago

> A car isn't much of a status symbol when most of your friends can't afford a nice one either. Kinda makes you look like a dick, in comparison. Isn't that exactly what makes it a status symbol? Keeping up with the Joneses, and all -- it's one thing to not play the game, but that doesn't mean a lot of people don't, and this seems to just be agreeing with what makes it a status symbol. Most American cities are sufficiently un-dense that things like "always having to look for parking" aren't big deals. Laws ensure places have enough spaces (these policies are very pedestrian-unfriendly, but such places are more car-friendly than the dense coastal cities). Traffic is slower at rush hour but a non-issue any other time in these places. The average car these days lasts 10+ years. Perpetually renting cars is going to be seen as disadvantage for a lot of people who take out ~5 year loans and then can keep the cars for quite a while after finishing off their payments. Anecdotally I'd wager that people buy new cars more for the status, or for the change of having something new, than to replace something that just doesn't work anymore, nowdays.

santaclaus 10y ago
Ehhhh no one who is cool is into cars... having a nice fixie probably correlates more with who is getting tail than a relic from the 1920s.
zeveb 10y ago
> > A car isn't much of a status symbol when most of your friends can't afford a nice one either. Kinda makes you look like a dick, in comparison. > Isn't that exactly what makes it a status symbol? To be an effective status symbol, something has to be of higher status, but not too high a status. Gold chains are just gauche, despite how valuable they are. So too, once upon a time, having a cell phone.
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  I think the tricky part there is social context. There are social groups where gold chains are absolutely status symbols. You'd be hard-pressed to find an NFL receiver without one, for instance. Conversely, there are groups where being able to afford _not_ to own a car is a status symbol. Think "I live in a neighborhood where everything is walkable", or "I just throw money at Uber because it's easier and I can afford it". Anything is a potential status symbol, if a group subconsciously agrees that it is. If your group doesn't value humility then too-high-status isn't really a thing.

nunez 10y ago

Unfortunately most of the US isn't like Chicago or NYC.

ghaff 10y ago
Personally, I see very little unfortunate about it.
- nunez 10y ago
  I agree; I moved out of NYC for a reason!

neumann 10y ago

I agree - car ownership is expensive. So we get by mostly on our bikes. Reasons we still have a car: - Moving big things - Shopping for big things - Camping - Driving out for the weekend to visit family 1.5 hours out of town - Baby in baby seat None of these things can easily be targeted by Uber. I rarely use taxis and uber, and my friend's that do, use it as replacement for public transport and not their car.

emmanuel_1234 10y ago
- Moving big things, Shopping for big things. Van rental (with driver) are a thing, at least where I live, where personal car ownership isn't really a thing. See for example: https://www.gogovan.com.hk/en/ https://www.gogovan.com.hk/en/ Big place to shop (e.g.: IKEA) offer delivery.