10 ms·

Steve Jobs' Prescience (Or: Who Wants A Stylus?)

• yan 16y ago
  "We’re not the greatest to sell to the Fortune 500 and there’s 500 of them, 500 CIOs that are orifices that you have to go through to get to the Fortune 500."
  • pohl 16y ago
    Just think of all the employees that roll-up to those 500 CIOs who just had themselves a little giggle. My favorite quote from the interview was "...one day we realized that death would eventually take care of this."
• Yaggo 16y ago
  Fully agree with Jobs. Hand writing recognization may have sounded fine idea, and is rather easy to properly implement, but the thing is that hand-writing is dying skill. Although I learnt to hand-write in childhood and did it for 15 years, nowdays I absolutely prefer typewriting (keyboard). My one-yeard-old daughter will be native typewriter. Speed recognization doesn't currently work (good enough), and if it did, speaking cannot fully replace typing because of privacy issues etc.
  • yequalsx 16y ago
    I would love it if it had digital ink. Handwriting recognition means nothing to me but the ability to digitally add handwritten notes would make me buy the iPad. I was disappointed with the cancellation of the Courier. If the iPad had digital ink and the ability to digitally markup documents with ink it would be the killer educational device.
    • jleyank 16y ago
      Concur. I block print, and carry a notebook everywhere. So, having something that I can use in my "accustomed fashion" that would also be searchable via handwriting recognition would be a big win. I also work in an industry where drawing geometric shapes are commonplace (chemical modeling). Yeah, you can do it with your finger, but sometimes the detail work is important and one's finger is a bit broad. Thus, working with a fine point/stylus would be an application win. Is this a big enough market segment to matter? Not at this instant, because they're selling every one they make with NO difficulty. Would be nice to see something once the sales ramp down a bit, though.
    • lutorm 16y ago
      You can do handwritten notes on the iPad, I've seen it done. A coworker uses iAnnotate and a stylus to make handwritten annotations in pdf files. Looks like it works pretty well. The thing is that typing works fine for text. But as soon as you want to draw a diagram or a formula or whatever, you're way better off freehand.
      • yequalsx 16y ago
        I'll have to check this out. My first reaction is that since it isn't part of the operating system like digital ink is with Windows Tablet PC Edition then it's not as flexible or as usable as I'd like. Thanks for letting me know about this app.
    • anigbrowl 16y ago
      Another concurrence, also about the Courier. I don't like typing on a touchscreen, and I actually enjoy handwriting - I think people underrate the degree to which it aids information retention and clear writing.
  • sethg 16y ago
    Do handwriting interfaces have more traction in China, Japan, and Korea?
    • tesseract 16y ago
      For what it's worth, the iPhone has one there.
    • rortian 16y ago
      I know they don't in Korea. Hangul lends itself to typing.
      • tesseract 16y ago
        Because Hangul is an alphabet.
    • moxiemk1 16y ago
      I've noticed that a number of personal translator devices (still a popular category of device, despite the capabilities of cell phones) have handwriting interfaces. (The "in Korea, handwriting interfaces are for old people" meme is struggling to escape, but I need to keep telling myself this isn't slashdot. People are actually intelligent here)
  • warfangle 16y ago
    There's one reason I'd want a stylus on the iPad (or any other tablet device), and it's not for handwriting. It's for sketching. Diagrams, wireframes, or just a squirrel in the park. Give me a simple sketching program - think Painter Light. Let it synch to a repository on my desktop. Let me use the tablet as an actual tablet via bluetooth when I'm actually at my desk. I would probably pay bank for that.
    • froo 16y ago
      You can get stylus' for apple's touch devices, I recently ordered one for my iPad. It's called a Pogo Sketch I plan to use my iPad for doodling and whatnot of a night time in bed, aswell as reading and general media consumption - its really my "bed time" screen device.
      • stcredzero 16y ago
        The Pogo sketch works pretty well with the ArtStudio app. I can even get some "brush" effect. (No pressure sensitivity. I think it's all a software trick.)
        • roc 16y ago
          Art Studio tapers from the start and to the end of a stroke over time of the stroke. So a faster stroke looks thinner, as more of it is drawn within the tapered times. Quite a few line strokes look quite pleasing due the effect. It's very neat.
      • kurumo 16y ago
        I have the Pogo stylus. The problem with it, or rather with ArtStudio, Sketchpad, Brushes and all the stylus note-taking apps is the same: you cannot rest your hand on the screen. It registers touches from the hand instead of the stylus. That makes all of these apps pretty much useless as far as I am concerned: it is quite inconvenient to draw or write using these applications, even though some of them are extremely impressive otherwise. This, frankly, boggles my mind - granted the screen sensor API is closed, but is it not possible to do velocity distribution thresholding on different touch events, or maybe something more sophisticated, a Kalman filter or something, to distinguish these touches and ignore the 'stationary' ones?
• heresy 16y ago
  He's right, though amusing that some of the arguments he mentions against a tablet were levelled against the iPad :) Personally, paper is still great for its flexibility, but I hardly write on it. I use it to scribble drawings of how things fit together, or jot down notes as I debug a tricky problem, run over algorithms in my head, etc. I want Caprica style digital paper for scribbling on that still allows me to persist heaps of data without needing lots of notepads.
  • darthpanda 16y ago
    I love my notepads. I collect them then go back a few years later and see what I was thinking. Sure I can do that on the computer, and I do using things like google docs, but I love paper and scribbling.
• iamclovin 16y ago
  I would think that a stylus would be awesome on the iPad for drawing applications (or even prototyping apps such as Omnigraffle). I haven't used an iPad yet but I imagine drawing with my index finger to be a little clumsy.
  • stcredzero 16y ago
    Yes, but for now it's too close to the mouse. Multitouch needs to mature first.
  • eli 16y ago
    Several companies sell a stylus for iPad, just not Apple.
• JunkDNA 16y ago
  I find this interesting from a historical perspective. You can really see the thought process that led to the design decisions on the iPhone and iPad: Get desktop sync right, optimize for user consumption of data, avoid handwriting recognition (since it's inefficient anyway), the PDA is dead (instead, a phone has to have PDA features). I also like the subtle way Jobs deflects the issue of whether or not tablet devices would be great for reading. He cracks a little joke and redirects the discussion.
  • krschultz 16y ago
    It's funny because the desktop syncing is probably the worst part of the ecosystem. They didn't even attempt to make it work on Linux (fine, its a niche, but they also actively made it more difficult for open source software to work with newer models) and iTunes for Windows is one of the crappiest pieces of software on Windows, and that's saying something.
    • snom370 16y ago
      I'd say desktop syncing is a really great part of the ecosystem, since it means that I can buy a new iPhone and be completely up and running again in less than an hour. Upgrading the software is a breeze, which is something you can't say about Nokia phones (last time I tried). I'd agree that iTunes on Windows sucks, but that's not too surprising given that they are running it inside of their cross-platform Objective C/Cocoa thingy.
      • jasonlotito 16y ago
        I hate, I hate, I hate iPod/iPhone syncing. It's intrusive, annoying, and constantly get's in my way. First, it interrupts whatever I'm doing. I like to listen to audiobooks, and if I'm at my desk, I might plug my iPod in so I can charge it up, but I don't want to stop listening to what I'm listening to. But no, it stops everything and starts syncing. Next, I need to jump through hoops to stop the syncing. iTunes starts up, and has to do it's thing. I can't just cancel the sync, I have to click through popups coming from iTunes to cancel the stupid sync before I can shut it down again. And god forbid iTunes actually SYNC what you mark to sync! I hate installing it simply because if I do, I have to go find the place that says "Yes, when I tell you to sync an audiobook, you should, you know, actually sync the audiobook." And then, after you are done syncing, I can't just jump back into listening to what I was listening to before. Yes, this happens, it happens often. Really, the entire iPod/iTunes environment makes me regret getting the iPod.
• deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
• tibbon 16y ago
  One of the better comments by Jobs, "It’s really true, if you’ve got a bunch of rich guys who can afford their third computer — you know, they’ve got a desktop, they’ve got a portable and now they’re gonna have one of these to read with… that’s your market!" I've got my iPhone, I've got my Macbook Pro, I've got my gaming systems (and we have a few Kindles floating around the house)... I need the iPad because?
  • JMiao 16y ago
    it's better at most non-geeky things than your macbook pro. i know because i own both.
    • krschultz 16y ago
      Is it $500 better? Compare a Macbook Pro to another laptop that is $500 cheaper. I'd argue there is $500 worth of value there. Is there $500 worth of value for the iPad over the Macbook Pro? I can think of a lot of things to do with $500 that would be better for me than buying an iPad.
      • Retric 16y ago
        A 700$ dell laptop + 500$ iPad costs less than a Apple's cheapest 15" laptop 1799$ (MacBook Pro) and Apple's 17" laptop is even more overpriced. IMO, the best option for most people is to buy a cheap 17" laptop and an iPad. And for gamers a desktop + iPad is much more reasonable than a "gaming" laptop. PS: When you consider how often the average users system is down (software/hardware/virus etc) having a simple independent device that lets them use email and most webpages is a huge advantage relative to spending 500$ for a better version on the same basic HW.
      • roc 16y ago
        > "Is it $500 better?" For me, sure. I looked at all the things that a desktop is bad at, that the iPad is good at. Like reading on the couch, occupying the kids in the car, annotation and note-taking away from a traditional desk, reviewing a load of pictures in the field, diagramming or sketching. I've spent more than $500 on an assortment of devices to meet those needs and none of them have been half as good as the iPad. So for me, it's absolutely worth it. But my finding value in it certainly doesn't speak to whether you will or should. Maybe you don't have any of those needs.
• anonjon 16y ago
  I just bought a $50 dollar peripheral for my computer specifically so that I could have a stylus, write handwritten notes and sketches. The issue is that if you have to have a stylus, it becomes a pain, because you are sitting there awkwardly hunched trying to scratch out handwriting. (elbows in, hunched over squinting at the screen).
• mrkurt 16y ago
  I don't think the stylus was the biggest problem with the $2-3k tablet computers running a generic OS with applications that were mostly optimized for desktop use.
  • JMiao 16y ago
    did you ever use a stylus? painfully unsexy in a pocket protector kind of way. the stylus was a big reason why app interfaces were so terrible. it allowed lazy manufacturers to strap a pressure-sensitive screen onto a notebook and call it a tablet pc. crappy hardware disinterests great software developers.
    • mrkurt 16y ago
      Yep, I actually owned a few tablet PCs. A stylus is a fantastic interface for entering unstructured information, one handed input, or drawing. It's not great for navigating. The biggest flaw of the Tablet PCs was that no one really committed to the interface. This was surely a result of the expense and not having much traction. And a giant failure on Microsoft's part. However, the "keep handwriting around" thing was (and is) a good idea. People like to decry handwriting recognition, but the idea was really "use digital ink, don't convert". --EDIT-- Also, the screens weren't pressure sensitive. They were capacitive, it only worked with the stylus.
      • ugh 16y ago
        I think we might see a stylus from Apple at some point in the future. They are unsexy and probably not generally something you want to construct your whole UI around. But they are clearly useful in some cases. It’s just that, as with the missing arrow keys (also clearly sometimes useful) on the original Macintosh, Apple doesn’t want anyone to get into bad habits. You can call that paternalism but that’s just how Apple rolls :)
    • viraptor 16y ago
      Stylus is not more at fault of terrible UI than anything else. Designers simply did not design for the fingers in the first place. If they were told to design the other way, they would do it. The mere presence of the stylus did not have to change anything. I actually like using stylus and don't see anything unsexy about it.
• astine 16y ago
  Handwriting has at least one advantage over a full qwerty keyboard: It's easier for one-handed text input. I remember taking notes on a small (almost netbook small) laptop years ago during a serious of walking tours of Rome and elsewhere in Italy. I ended up turning my backpack around and placing the laptop on it so that I could type. An actual pen and paper notebook would have been easier to use, but I wanted my notes on my computer. A tablet with good handwriting recognition would have been exactly what I needed then, and I can think of other instances where people might prefer it to a keyboard. It's exactly what would be useful for taking notes while standing or walking.
• Shorel 16y ago
  Writing normal letters is very slow, sure. And making the system recognize ugly handwriting like mine is a torture for me and for the developers. But, there's this thing called shorthand, used by secretaries who needed to write faster than her boss could speak. It is still amazingly fast. The lack of proof of concept implementations of shorthand recognition is to me a failure in tablet user interface history. You can't say it is not a good method without having tried it, and a computerized interface would convert the symbols to normal words in a second, providing instant feedback.
  • jeduan 16y ago
    Still the user would have to learn a new way to write. Not great especially when you consider that things such as Dvorak have failed to get traction.
  • jodrellblank 16y ago
    This is something I've considered before as well; in fact, I wonder why we aren't forced to learn it in school, considering we spend years in school, going to lectures and taking down notes of people talking as quickly as we can write. In terms of computing, though, I think it would suffer many of the problems of handwriting recognition - wobbly lines, different sizes of people's writings, pens lifting off the page at different times - and some more of it's own. For instance, Pitman shorthand comes in different versions - every few years they change the standard to try to make it more concise. Many of the shapes are in relative positions so the same thing above/on/below the line have different meanings, and the extra informational signals such as dots and dashes can be left off by more advanced people without changing the meaning. Worse than that is that it's short because it's phonetic - so not only does the computer trying to recognise it have to do everything it does for handwriting recognition, but it also has another layer to do first - what sounds are you using and what words are you trying to write from them? Instead of (pen strokes -> words), you get (pen strokes -> phonetic sounds -> words). Also, Pitman shorthand is pressure sensitive - light strokes for unvoiced sounds and heavy strokes for voiced sounds, IIRC. Worse even than that, it's short because it allows you to leave information out where you know what it will be and to develop your own shortcuts where useful to you. You might abbreviate your name to "Sh" with {name indicating symbol}, or use "em eff ing" for manufacturing, or have a symbol for "Our newest product" or write "would like know b prices" for "we would like to know your best prices". So now you have pen strokes -> sounds -> filling in missing sounds -> words -> filling in missing words -> text. Seems useful for taking notes in a hurry and then writing them up in full yourself the same day or week, less useful for writing for other people or future reference, and even less useful for computer recognition.
• fjabre 16y ago
  "...for the universe of people using a PDA, 90% of them just want to get the information out. Only 10% want to do major input on this thing." I love his line of thinking here. He really does have a knack for breaking things down to their simplest components and extracting useful information from that perspective.
• brisance 16y ago
  The interesting takeaway for me is that Steve recognizes Apple's weaknesses (not being able to sell into the "enterprise") and is laser-focused on the consumer market. Seems to have paid off.