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I think it's a lot of fun as long as there is an underlying level of respect. This is much better than the thought policing a lot of people do. Fun? For whom??
by iamdave 10y ago
I think it's a lot of fun as long as there is an underlying level of respect. This is much better than the thought policing a lot of people do.
Fun? For whom???
Even among my closest friends I have no time, nor the patience to entertain or accept any amount of racism or racist thought. I tend to think of it less as "thought-policing" and view it more along the lines of "You're my friend and you're carrying about with behavior born from an established history where the roots of that very behavior resulted in people like me (Black people) being treated as second-class at best, sub-human at worst".
A few of them every now and then try to sneak in a black joke when in company and we're having drinks, joking about various absurdities in the world and believe it or not but my friends know me well enough to know all I have to do is glare at them in a certain way-when that glare comes out they know "Okay that comment crosses a line".
You may consider it extreme or a bit "much" because to you it's "a lot of fun", and that's certainly your prerogative but after a lifetime trying to prove not just to myself but people I work with that I am more than my skin color
...well, any amounts of behavior that bucks against that is not any shade of fun, and for someone who embodies the spirit of transcending treating race as something so cavalier, to me it definitely isn't "thought policing". It's asking to be treated like my lived condition matters as much as yours so as not to be reduced to a damn punchline.
(Tangent: https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/death+of+a+thousand+cuts.html https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/death+of+a+tho...)
- maxxxxx 10y agoFrom my experience most ethnic groups or countries have some quirky traditions and habits. Germans have weird/funny habits and beliefs, Austrians do, Hispanic people do and all other groups of people do. I have no problem with people asking me what's up with Germans running around naked in parks in Munich or how I feel about the Nazi time and I like to talk to Indians how crazy I think their traffic is or what the deal is with arranged marriage. To me that's showing respect because we treat each other like real people and not some fragile beings that are offended all the time.
- iamdave 10y agoTo me that's showing respect because we treat each other like real people and not some fragile beings that are offended all the time. Agreed, and there's definitely a benefit to discussing with members outside of your ethnic/racial/cultural group their traditions comparatively with yours for mutual understanding and respect for the benefit of coming closer together as people. It's not however the same as "joking" about the delineations between race and culture or otherwise trivializing them in one way or another; and it should be noted, that I make that distinction as a counter-point because while I definitely hear you on this phenomenon and will even go so far as to concede agreement, your point is very-and uncomfortably-often used as a feigned concession when a member of a certain ethnic group or minority points out how instances of out group or members of an out group x talk about unique aspects of said ethnic group/minority either (A) come up offensively short of lived reality or (B) are just prima face offensive. Edit: I'm not saying that's what you're doing, by the way. That accusation isn't being lobbied, the behavior is being held to a spotlight however for the sake of discussing this further-for which I'm privileged to be doing with you today.
- noobermin 10y agoEverything needs balance of course. The problem is that so many people are afraid of the consequences for not being PC enough that conversation just shuts down and everyone goes back into their groups. Sensitivity to a joke can be for everything, from racial attacks to attacking language functional purity. I think when it comes to black people specifically, there is a legacy and history of oppression, so that warrants some sensitivity for certain jokes (hanging from trees, etc.), but as an islander, I don't get too offended when people make silly jokes about it. The importance is that there is, as GP says, an underlying level of respect. Not that I haven't been in company where I don't feel there is that level of respect, I've been around perfectly PC squeaky clean people who with nicer words and actions motion their lack of respect. A joke is less of a threat to me than a person who fundamentally doesn't respect me as a person. PC-ness is all about hiding the symptoms and not addressing the cause, and at least in some cases has hurt those who work for social justice.
- phs318u 10y ago> Everything needs balance of course. No, not everything. e.g. scientific facts don't need to be balanced with self-serving quackery. >PC-ness is all about hiding the symptoms and not addressing the cause I don't consider myself racist or sexist. I don't believe I've lost anything by being inhibited from making racist or sexist jokes. I've lost literally nothing. I presume that racists/sexists will continue to be so, whether they make such jokes or not. I also very strongly suspect that they'll still be identifiable as such by their other actions. However, if someone is not acting in any way that could be construed as racist/sexist, then what they are thinking in the privacy of their heads is irrelevant. The important outcome is to ensure that others are not disadvantaged through racism/sexism. If we are to be judged on our thoughts, then very few would be judged well. That's why we judge on deeds. And speech is a deed.