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I Knew Chelsea Manning in Basic Training. Here’s the Story You Haven’t Heard
- xutopia 10y agoThe arguments in this open as to why we shouldn't like Chelsea Manning was that she misunderstood social cues, didn't respond well eating a whole meal within 2 minutes and 45 seconds, and complained she couldn't do it about a few of the idiotic exercises you are asked to do. Yeah no shit... military training is ridiculous. I think a lot of us have enough sense to not ever join.
- throwaway9865 10y agoI've never bought into the transitioning into a woman more so it's great PR to get his story and plight out there; help get him released .. looks like it worked. Before you downvote me think about fake news... fake online dating profiles....all having their own agendas... you think Manning and his team didn't have an agenda and do everything in their power to help free him? Also in 2013 the whole transitioning thing was a hot social topic and all progressives were embracing it. Did him and his team jump on this movement/exploit it to get him released... personally I question a lot of what i see and read and again I think his transition was a really good move to keep him in the public eye especially in 2013
- celticninja 10y agoSeems like a very extreme length to go to for your freedom when it is by no means guaranteed.
- throwaway9865 10y agoYou wouldn't do everything in your power to not have to live in solitary confinement for 35 years??? Especially when your counterpart Snowden is living as a free and highly revered hero while your locked up in a dark hole???
- celticninja 10y agoYes of course but transitioning to a female doesn't increase the chance of release but does increase the short, medium and long term difficulties of being incarcerated. By your reasoning we should see him/her start to transition back to male after his release (say within 18 months) I'm happy to make a wager on that not happening, nothing silly but perhaps $25 to the charity of the winners choice?
- throwaway9865 10y agoHe did not get surgery and if someone needs to transition go ahead. Overall there is no harm done here by my questioning things and making you either reject it fully or think as with all the fake news that this was orchestrated for the better of Manning. Obviously everyone disagrees with my viewpoint and that's fine. I've been right about these things before and wrong too! Overall there needs to be a startup or something that instantly shows what's fake and what's not. Will Manning still be a woman ten years from now maybe .. maybe not. But we as techies may want to question a lot of what we see and hear.. especially on the Internet. I.e. Pizzagate
- stephancoral 10y agoJust because someone has an "agenda" doesn't mean it is insidious or disingenuous. Everyone has an "agenda". This cynical attitude is so toxic because it masquerades as "critical thinking" when in fact all it does it simple contradiction and negation. Like, what is your evidence? That you never "bought" into it? Give me a break. Have you ever met a trans person? Have you ever talked to someone going through gender dysmorphia? It's a heartbreaking, serious condition. This is someone's life, someone who was given an extreme sentence that is way beyond any precedent or any sense of justice considering their crimes. Your pseudo-intellectual posturing disgusts me. HN is getting more and more of these cranks by the day, might be time for me to leave.
- throwaway9865 10y agoHuh I'm all for transgenders but also someone who has created fake news and stories to push agendas.
- throwaway9865 10y agoOh so you believe everything you see and read?
- cholantesh 10y agoNo, which is why I choose to scoff at conspiratorial rantings that are bereft of evidence.
- throwaway9865 10y agoThink you meant yes
- dang 10y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the HN guidelines. Please don't create accounts to do that.
- cubecul 10y agoI recommend reading the entire thing. The article is not trying to pitch the audience against Manning, just that the currently popular image of Manning is incomplete.
- toomuchtodo 10y agoI don't care what the image is of Manning, that's no excuse to treat her like the US military did. We are human beings (or so we like to believe), not savages.
- vanattab 10y agoWhat is the US military accused of doing?
- toomuchtodo 10y agohttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/us/chelsea-manning-sentence-obama.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/us/chelsea-manning-senten...
- droopybuns 10y agoOutrageous amounts of solitary confinement.
- georgehaake 10y agoImpressive recall.
- qntty 10y agoSounds like she was a sane person in an insane environment
- davidcollantes 10y agoI was in the military (not in the States), and the environment was similar. It is what it is. At least in the States is not compulsory, I had no choice.
- digler999 10y agothe military's duty is to prepare its soldiers for war, which isn't a particularly "sane environment". It seems logical to break down a recruit's sense of self and rebuild it in a manner that emphasizes the interests of the group over the individual. I'm shocked that the Army let someone with this kind of "me first" syndrome rise up the ranks high enough to be near sensitive material. My other thoughts on the case are that her 37 year sentence was draconian, and the solitary and mind-tricks they played on her in prison were cruel and unusual. And that overall we are better off having the collateral murder video so the war can be seen for what it is. Not sure if there was any value in leaking the diplomatic cables, though.
- makecheck 10y agoThis type of article amounts to “ad hominem attack”. Whether or not any of this is true does not matter when fairly judging the actions of the same person. In other words, forget what you know about the person and consider only what they did.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y agoFor the sake of an argument, yes. However, Manning has a played very significant role in history and to fully understand that role we must understand the person, and why that person in particular chose to do what so many others in that same place did not. However, if this assessment is correct, then I am surprised Manning even made PFC. Thats the story I would like to hear.
- dogma1138 10y agoSorry, but in the long run I manning didn't play an important role in history, besides a few activists and now the media no one really remembers him or the leaks. One can even say that Snowden is irrelevant in the long run, he only pops up once in a while. There was not major political or social fallout following manning. Same goes for Snowden, the NSA is still there with more power than ever, more and more countries developing similar capabilities and no one seem to really care.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago>There was not major political or social fallout following manning. Same goes for Snowden, the NSA is still there with more power than ever, more and more countries developing similar capabilities and no one seem to really care. Just because something extraordinary happens and nothing changes doesn't mean it didn't become history; it's precisely the kind of history of the time we are in. Things dont change because the world has been artifically crafted to be perceived as a stable system. If you haven't seen Adam Curtis' documentaries, I highly recommend them. Particularly HyperNormalization.
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- berry_sortoro 10y agoI think its disgusting how CHILDREN are indoctrinated into the military. The picture alone of this kids in military uniforms give me the creeps. War is a racket (read that book). I have not read the entire article but read the comment "The arguments in this open as to why we shouldn't like Chelsea Manning was that she misunderstood social cues, didn't respond well eating a whole meal within 2 minutes and 45 seconds, and complained she couldn't do it about a few of the idiotic exercises you are asked to do. Yeah no shit... military training is ridiculous. I think a lot of us have enough sense to not ever join." and the answer that claims "I recommend reading the entire thing. The article is not trying to pitch the audience against Manning, just that the currently popular image of Manning is incomplete." From what I read this is a stupid piece trying to make him/her look bad. To he/she is a hero because actions matter to me and by actions I do not care what ever the fuck of meaningless shit he/she did or did not do in her stupid ass military training from some guy who thinks he is something better because he follows every order and does everything exactly how he is told without questioning. And from the little I read is exactly what this is about.
- apeacox 10y agoWell, you haven't to be a soldier to be a hero.
- justin_vanw 10y agoSo as a veteran I can certainly remember the annoying kids in basic training that couldn't really keep up. I think every veteran can remember some folks they went to training with that could barely hack it. But what's the point of harping on it years later? I don't think anyone would be surprised that Manning was a 'bad soldier'. Then there is a bunch totally unrelated stuff that happened much later, took a huge amount of courage, and led to arrest and imprisonment.
- cholantesh 10y agoSerious question: is it a fairly accurate perception that if someone can't hack it in basic they will _never_ be able to make it as a soldier? I'd like to think that Manning had the potential to become better, though I'm not really familiar with her career outside of the leak.
- k__ 10y agoI don't know, luckily I nerver had to work as a soldier. But I read some stories about soldiers getting medals for progarmming stuff, when they were deployed somewhere. So it seems the stuff you learn in basic training doesn't necessarily determine the value you got for the army you serve for.
- r00fus 10y agoAs a veteran, I can say that Basic really doesn't prepare you for much other than the rudiments of military life. Heck when I went through a couple of decades ago we were still shouting anti-communist slurs while we practiced with bayonets.
- wtfishackernews 10y agoI don't understand everyone picking on military training practices. They don't do that for fun or to humiliate you, they do it to prepare you for combat. You sign up for that when you join the military.
- gulaschbrot 10y agoI just don't understand why even a single person on earth would voluntarily want to join this torture, or why she didn't quit. I would have quit after 2 minutes.
- stagger87 10y agoTorture? Sounds like high school wrestling practice.
- r00fus 10y agoThat's just you. And to be honest, I seriously questioned why I was there about a week or so into the whole affair. Some people really find they are good at that stuff. Others have no real options (I met both). Most are somewhere between that and where you are.
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- arbitrage 10y agoSo, if she had all of these problems in training, why didn't she wash out?
- entee 10y agoI had the same question. Toward the end, the article mentions that the military was starved for recruits and the standards relaxed a little. Maybe eventually she passed at a minimal bar and they needed bodies so she made it through. I think the article paints a picture of someone who didn't fit in, and who just wasn't in a mental space compatible with the military. Nothing wrong with that, but probably shouldn't be a soldier. I'm sure her experiences all contributed to her taking the extraordinary step of leaking all this information. Human behavior is complicated, I think it would be best not to demonize her despite what I believe to be a mixed record on the outcomes of the leak.
- Sone7 10y agoHe rails on her for the entire article as a quitter. ... But she didn't quit. Kinda diminishes his entire point for me.
- bryanrasmussen 10y agoYes sir, given the sharp picture this article paints her actions in leaking while in boot camp was just another example of someone refusing to get with the program. Either that or the two things don't really have much to do with each other... I find it weird, the implication in the article is of a weak person. So, she leaked classified material and went to prison because she was weak, which sure is a narrative alright. I bet the author of the piece is mentally, morally and physically strong enough to never leak classified material, destroy their life and suffer greatly for doing something that has no appreciable benefit to them. So the logic goes like this: Manning was different, therefore Manning was weak, Manning did something the author and other people at boot camp wouldn't therefore Manning is still different therefore still weak. Weak, weak, weak not strong like the author and other soldiers who cohere together to value commitment and loyalty, manly non-weak virtues that weakling Manning could never know. Anyway, really it seems a little unlikely given this description of Manning as a soldier that she would ever have gotten through basic. So I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few lies sprucing up the main point of the article, which main point being that Manning is weak and we should feel a sort of moral disgust about that condition of weakness. ah well, the writing was just awful. Maybe that's why I ascribe an awful world view to it.
- bryanrasmussen 10y agojust in case anyone is confused - the statement about leaking in bootcamp is sarcasm, since I think - well it really seems the narrative is of someone who wouldn't have made it through bootcamp to a place where they could end up leaking classified intel and anyway I'm one of those who think the actions in the two places do not have as strong a thematic article as the author implies... so I don't really believe the story as told.
- JoeAltmaier 10y agoReads like a classic co-dependent personality? Always trying to stand out by eliciting sympathy for weakness. "Poor me, I can't do this stuff". Even to the point of faking choking. Isn't there some psychiatric examination to detect this early on?