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Question is, who are competitors with same scope as them? I don't know any. They are already in position to just switch over. Others would have to build their n

Question is, who are competitors with same scope as them? I don't know any. They are already in position to just switch over. Others would have to build their network first. It's a running start that depends on them playing their cards right.

ithinkinstereo 10y ago
> Question is, who are competitors with same scope as them? I don't know any. Presumably traditional car manufacturers (GM, Ford, Toyota, BMW, etc.), upstart car manufacturers (Tesla), and even other large tech conglomerates (Google, Baidu, etc.). > They are already in position to just switch over. Others would have to build their network first. It's a running start that depends on them playing their cards right. Uber won't have a monopoly in self-driving tech. Their running start will get eroded (some would argue quickly) by new challengers (probably regional upstarts rather than a global competitor) that have easy access to self-driving tech (think car manufacturers). Also, Uber's network is mostly on the software and human (drivers) side of things. If self-driving tech becomes a reality, they'll have to quickly pivot to purchasing and maintaining a large fleet of cars. That's not an easy task at scale and not something that Uber necessarily has an advantage over others.
- Keyframe 10y ago
  Why aren't car manufacturers already in logistics business? Or are they? I'm trying to find sources. I see VW has its own logistics group, but only for their own use.
  - xemdetia 10y ago
    In the US at least (I haven't ever bothered to look at how branded car dealers exist outside the US), they already have a network of physical locations where they can ship anything and service anything they sell. There are also the rental agencies and the people that manage fleets of private vehicles that work directly with the local dealers on behest of the global organization- Uber doesn't have this and would have to build it. Right now they are pushing that part of the logistics of their organization on their drivers since it is their own personal vehicle. This is something you can see Tesla having to do the hard way in comparison with their coast to coast supercharger network. There was no physical infrastructure to support their product so they had to build it, and established car dealers already have it which is part of why Tesla overcoming that was such a challenge. If I have a US make car in the US and I am in a moderately populated area I can make a reasonable assumption I can get to a dealer in an hour or two wherever I may be, and Uber would have to overcome that.
  - secabeen 10y ago
    They have been. Between 1987 and 2005, Hertz was owned by Ford and Volvo. They spun it off to private equity in 2005, but it has happened in the past.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Google may be a competitor, but it may be more of an enabler of competitors to Uber, by way of, e.g., it's ridesharing feature in Maps.
Qworg 10y ago
What is scope for Uber-likes? What is network? They're simply leveraging a brand - it is almost no moat versus a competitor, especially if they have a structural advantage. An example advantage would be an autonomous car manufacturer entering the market - they can simply blow Uber out of the water on cost alone.
- Keyframe 10y ago
  No moat? Do you think brand recognition is worthless or I'm missing something? They have a large user base (I presume) already. I'm not sure one could build one from scratch just like that. It would need a big player to enter the game.
  - amclennon 10y ago
    I imagine a company like Ford, Chrysler, or any other large car manufacturer would have equal if not greater brand recognition compared to Uber. These would be the biggest threat to Uber's market share since they could easily compete on cost and distribution alone.
majewsky 10y ago
Any larger car company is a competitor at the same scale. And you don't even need a competitor of the same scale: It's enough if every city has a local competitor.
- Ben-G 10y ago
  Yep, that's exactly one of the points I was trying to make.
vitaminbandit 10y ago
As far as war chest goes, Uber basically has no competition. As far as their routing and vehicle management algorithms go, there already exist companies with more sophisticated routing systems than Uber. Uber's routing algorithm is basically nearest neighbor search at a massive scale - which is perfect for the on-demand nature of their business; the companies that I'm referring to can support on-demand routing as well as scheduling rides days and weeks in advance. More knowledge of future rides -> better optimization -> better margins. Once self-driving cars finally come around, it's going to come down to fleet size and routing optimization, and while Uber can win in the first category, there's no guarantee they can win in the second category.
- jacques_chester 10y ago
  > As far as war chest goes, Uber basically has no competition. Google has more money coming in half year than Uber has ever raised, and it's from profits. The major car companies also have billions of dollars of revenue and collectively they hold hundreds of billions, possibly trillions, of dollars of fully depreciated assets.
  - vitaminbandit 10y ago
    You're right about the cash available, but how much is Google (and its investors) willing to lose to compete with Uber? Are Google's investors willing to put up with another [vastly more expensive] Google Plus? Because when I say war chest, I mean Uber is willing to lose it all. Rides are Uber's only revenue source, whereas Google has never made a cent in that industry.
    - nojvek 10y ago
      Is Uber really willing to lose it all? Investors have put money in it expecting 10x return. Google can just right it off as their moonshot project while Uber as as a company goes poof and burns
    - jacques_chester 10y ago
      Google's investors don't have a choice. Brin and Page have voting control. In any case, it's hypothetical. Uber's unit economics are made of losses and there is no structural moat around their business. They'll run out of money and that will be that.
dinkumthinkum 10y ago
I think building a network is very much in the bailiwick of auto manufacturers or anyone with capital to purchase the cars and built a simple app with a marketing campaign.

ithinkinstereo 10y ago

> Question is, who are competitors with same scope as them? I don't know any. Presumably traditional car manufacturers (GM, Ford, Toyota, BMW, etc.), upstart car manufacturers (Tesla), and even other large tech conglomerates (Google, Baidu, etc.). > They are already in position to just switch over. Others would have to build their network first. It's a running start that depends on them playing their cards right. Uber won't have a monopoly in self-driving tech. Their running start will get eroded (some would argue quickly) by new challengers (probably regional upstarts rather than a global competitor) that have easy access to self-driving tech (think car manufacturers). Also, Uber's network is mostly on the software and human (drivers) side of things. If self-driving tech becomes a reality, they'll have to quickly pivot to purchasing and maintaining a large fleet of cars. That's not an easy task at scale and not something that Uber necessarily has an advantage over others.

Keyframe 10y ago
Why aren't car manufacturers already in logistics business? Or are they? I'm trying to find sources. I see VW has its own logistics group, but only for their own use.
- xemdetia 10y ago
  In the US at least (I haven't ever bothered to look at how branded car dealers exist outside the US), they already have a network of physical locations where they can ship anything and service anything they sell. There are also the rental agencies and the people that manage fleets of private vehicles that work directly with the local dealers on behest of the global organization- Uber doesn't have this and would have to build it. Right now they are pushing that part of the logistics of their organization on their drivers since it is their own personal vehicle. This is something you can see Tesla having to do the hard way in comparison with their coast to coast supercharger network. There was no physical infrastructure to support their product so they had to build it, and established car dealers already have it which is part of why Tesla overcoming that was such a challenge. If I have a US make car in the US and I am in a moderately populated area I can make a reasonable assumption I can get to a dealer in an hour or two wherever I may be, and Uber would have to overcome that.
- secabeen 10y ago
  They have been. Between 1987 and 2005, Hertz was owned by Ford and Volvo. They spun it off to private equity in 2005, but it has happened in the past.
dragonwriter 10y ago
Google may be a competitor, but it may be more of an enabler of competitors to Uber, by way of, e.g., it's ridesharing feature in Maps.

Qworg 10y ago

What is scope for Uber-likes? What is network? They're simply leveraging a brand - it is almost no moat versus a competitor, especially if they have a structural advantage. An example advantage would be an autonomous car manufacturer entering the market - they can simply blow Uber out of the water on cost alone.

Keyframe 10y ago
No moat? Do you think brand recognition is worthless or I'm missing something? They have a large user base (I presume) already. I'm not sure one could build one from scratch just like that. It would need a big player to enter the game.
- amclennon 10y ago
  I imagine a company like Ford, Chrysler, or any other large car manufacturer would have equal if not greater brand recognition compared to Uber. These would be the biggest threat to Uber's market share since they could easily compete on cost and distribution alone.

majewsky 10y ago

Any larger car company is a competitor at the same scale. And you don't even need a competitor of the same scale: It's enough if every city has a local competitor.

Ben-G 10y ago
Yep, that's exactly one of the points I was trying to make.

vitaminbandit 10y ago

As far as war chest goes, Uber basically has no competition. As far as their routing and vehicle management algorithms go, there already exist companies with more sophisticated routing systems than Uber. Uber's routing algorithm is basically nearest neighbor search at a massive scale - which is perfect for the on-demand nature of their business; the companies that I'm referring to can support on-demand routing as well as scheduling rides days and weeks in advance. More knowledge of future rides -> better optimization -> better margins. Once self-driving cars finally come around, it's going to come down to fleet size and routing optimization, and while Uber can win in the first category, there's no guarantee they can win in the second category.

jacques_chester 10y ago
> As far as war chest goes, Uber basically has no competition. Google has more money coming in half year than Uber has ever raised, and it's from profits. The major car companies also have billions of dollars of revenue and collectively they hold hundreds of billions, possibly trillions, of dollars of fully depreciated assets.
- vitaminbandit 10y ago
  You're right about the cash available, but how much is Google (and its investors) willing to lose to compete with Uber? Are Google's investors willing to put up with another [vastly more expensive] Google Plus? Because when I say war chest, I mean Uber is willing to lose it all. Rides are Uber's only revenue source, whereas Google has never made a cent in that industry.
  - nojvek 10y ago
    Is Uber really willing to lose it all? Investors have put money in it expecting 10x return. Google can just right it off as their moonshot project while Uber as as a company goes poof and burns
  - jacques_chester 10y ago
    Google's investors don't have a choice. Brin and Page have voting control. In any case, it's hypothetical. Uber's unit economics are made of losses and there is no structural moat around their business. They'll run out of money and that will be that.

dinkumthinkum 10y ago

I think building a network is very much in the bailiwick of auto manufacturers or anyone with capital to purchase the cars and built a simple app with a marketing campaign.