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I think a lot of people are emotionally unable to deal with a world that is as dramatically unfair as ours is, so they fall back to the childish notion that peo

I think a lot of people are emotionally unable to deal with a world that is as dramatically unfair as ours is, so they fall back to the childish notion that people who have fallen on hard times deserve it and successful people controlled their own destiny to get there, because the alternative is too uncomfortable to think about.

source99 10y ago
Just curious what is your definition of fair?
- minikites 10y ago
  It's evolving as I learn more on this topic but I think you could pick almost any demographic trait and find easy evidence of unfairness (race, gender [especially for people who don't fit into a culturally imposed gender binary], age, etc) A common argument I've seen relating to fairness is that "government/society should ensure equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome" but we don't even do that: "Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination": http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 "Black people twice as likely to be charged with drugs possession": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/21/ethnic-minorities-likely-charged-drug-possession https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/21/ethnic-minorit... "Seeing the poor cuts support for a tax on the rich - Visual reminders of poverty do not make make people more sympathetic to the poor." http://arstechnica.com/science/2017/01/encounters-with-poor-people-reduce-support-for-taxes-on-the-rich/ http://arstechnica.com/science/2017/01/encounters-with-poor-... Instead of developing empathy, we cultivate and celebrate ruthlessness. In my opinion, the widespread lack of empathy is the root of most societal ills. And these examples and opinions are just about the developed world (obviously, similar forms of them exist in all societies). Imagine the "luck" and "opportunities" you would have if you happened to be born into an impoverished nation or conflict area.
kyleschiller 10y ago
Yeah, that's probably part of it, but remember also that the people controlling narratives are by definition in power, and that people in power have strong incentives to justify their position.
- minikites 10y ago
  I'm not sure what you're getting at, do you mean the ends justify the means?
  - kyleschiller 10y ago
    Oh, not actually. I just mean that people have benefited from the existing system will naturally be incentivized to legitimize it. In this case, that entails promoting the narrative that we live in a meritocratic society where talent and hard work rises to the top.
acchow 10y ago
A lot of people? I doubt it, otherwise we wouldn't have such widespread use of "you're so lucky!".
- minikites 10y ago
  That's true, but I think of people saying "You're so lucky!" in the same way that I think of people asking "How are you?". There isn't any actual meaning behind it, it's just the airy rituals of small talk.

source99 10y ago

Just curious what is your definition of fair?

minikites 10y ago
It's evolving as I learn more on this topic but I think you could pick almost any demographic trait and find easy evidence of unfairness (race, gender [especially for people who don't fit into a culturally imposed gender binary], age, etc) A common argument I've seen relating to fairness is that "government/society should ensure equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome" but we don't even do that: "Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination": http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 "Black people twice as likely to be charged with drugs possession": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/21/ethnic-minorities-likely-charged-drug-possession https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/21/ethnic-minorit... "Seeing the poor cuts support for a tax on the rich - Visual reminders of poverty do not make make people more sympathetic to the poor." http://arstechnica.com/science/2017/01/encounters-with-poor-people-reduce-support-for-taxes-on-the-rich/ http://arstechnica.com/science/2017/01/encounters-with-poor-... Instead of developing empathy, we cultivate and celebrate ruthlessness. In my opinion, the widespread lack of empathy is the root of most societal ills. And these examples and opinions are just about the developed world (obviously, similar forms of them exist in all societies). Imagine the "luck" and "opportunities" you would have if you happened to be born into an impoverished nation or conflict area.

kyleschiller 10y ago

Yeah, that's probably part of it, but remember also that the people controlling narratives are by definition in power, and that people in power have strong incentives to justify their position.

minikites 10y ago
I'm not sure what you're getting at, do you mean the ends justify the means?
- kyleschiller 10y ago
  Oh, not actually. I just mean that people have benefited from the existing system will naturally be incentivized to legitimize it. In this case, that entails promoting the narrative that we live in a meritocratic society where talent and hard work rises to the top.

acchow 10y ago

A lot of people? I doubt it, otherwise we wouldn't have such widespread use of "you're so lucky!".

minikites 10y ago
That's true, but I think of people saying "You're so lucky!" in the same way that I think of people asking "How are you?". There isn't any actual meaning behind it, it's just the airy rituals of small talk.