5 ms·

Islam, actually, does not. Sex between a husband and wife is considered worship.

by mkaziz 10y ago

reitanqild 10y ago
> Islam, actually, does not. Sex between a husband and wife... So far true for Christianity as well according to my reading and what I have been told. The worship part however I can't relate to.
- mkaziz 10y ago
  Really? I thought several denominations of Christianity frowned on non-procreational sex.
  - vollmond 10y ago
    They see sex as equally procreative and unitive -- so if you explicitly block either aspect, you're misusing it. (Catholic perspective, anyway, and probably significantly over-simplified).
    - vollmond 10y ago
      The US council of bishops has a document giving more details: http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/natural-family-planning/catholic-teaching/upload/Unitive-and-Proc-Nature-of-Interc.pdf http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/n...
  - aidenn0 10y ago
    Saying "Christianity believes X" is likely to be not true for some denominations for any X other than "Jesus is the son of God" Even if you restrict yourself to Protestantism in the US, you will have trouble generalizing too much; the doctrine of Sola Scriptura[1] is probably the only other universal there. With regards to sexuality, there is very broad agreement that extramarital sex is sinful, but not much more agreement beyond that. Most protestants are accepting of contraception within marriage; Roman Catholic doctrine is opposed to any use of contraception (to the point of the official stance being that HIV positive married persons should never have sex rather than use a condom), however somewhere between "more than half" and 90% of western Catholics disagree with this. James Dobson (A well known Evangelical Protestant psychologist) gets plenty of angry letters any time his stance that masturbation is a normal and healthy part of developing sexuality comes up. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    Not sure why child post from aidenn0 is flagged dead, the way I read it it was correct and unoffensive but for what I know it might have been changed after flagging or I might have misread it.
lern_too_spel 10y ago
And sex between a husband and wives is considered greater worship, but sex between wife and husbands is a sin.
- mkaziz 10y ago
  You sound like you're mocking it, and I almost didn't respond, but here goes (hoping you'll take this in good faith): people in the west like to nitpick on this, but you have to understand that Islam was born in an incredibly sexist environment where when your dad died, you could inherit your stepmothers as wives. Women weren't allowed to own property or inherit. So compared to that, Islam was incredibly progressive (women allowed to own businesses, inherit, entitled to all sorts of benefits in case of marriage, divorce, etc that simply did not exist before). So strictly speaking polygamy is allowed in Islam (man->women, not women->man) but that is not an obligation by any means. As times have changed, culture has changed, people have just stopped doing that as much. I grew up in a conservative, Muslim-majority country and in my 18 years there, I did not meet a single person with multiple wives. I heard of one person though - a man from a village who worked in the city had one wife in each location. I never met this man, but a distant relative knew of him. That's it. Every other person I met was monogamous. I'm not trying to justify something you think is wrong, just giving you a bit of perspective that I hope you'll consider.
  - whowalrus 10y ago
    Civil (and informative) comments like yours are why I come to HN.
  - lern_too_spel 10y ago
    Your phrasing is curious. You're "not trying to justify something that [I] think is wrong." I would have removed the italicized section entirely. Do you not also think it is wrong that you have heard of a man with multiple wives but not vice-versa?
serge2k 10y ago
Shame about the rest of the attitudes towards women.
- mkaziz 10y ago
  Eh, I think there's a lot of room for progressivism out there. Problem is that a lot of Muslim-majority countries out there are very much in the dark ages, where the orthodox religious institutions have a chokehold on society, and that is what the world sees. If you actually go and observe Western muslim society (beyond newsmedia fearmongering), women are much much more so on equal footing here, and society thrives for it. I, for one, am very excited to see what direction this new generation of Muslim millenials in the West take the cultural development of Islam. (based on my experience in the US; may not be true of Europe)
  - throwaway1892 10y ago
    For Europe, at least where I am, it goes both way, in some parts the women are on equal footing to men, but in other parts it's the opposite, with women seen as inferior to men.

Islam, actually, does not. Sex between a husband and wife is considered worship.

by mkaziz 10y ago

Islam, actually, does not. Sex between a husband and wife is considered worship.

> Islam, actually, does not. Sex between a husband and wife... So far true for Christianity as well according to my reading and what I have been told. The worship part however I can't relate to.

mkaziz 10y ago
Really? I thought several denominations of Christianity frowned on non-procreational sex.
- vollmond 10y ago
  They see sex as equally procreative and unitive -- so if you explicitly block either aspect, you're misusing it. (Catholic perspective, anyway, and probably significantly over-simplified).
  - vollmond 10y ago
    The US council of bishops has a document giving more details: http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/natural-family-planning/catholic-teaching/upload/Unitive-and-Proc-Nature-of-Interc.pdf http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/n...
- aidenn0 10y ago
  Saying "Christianity believes X" is likely to be not true for some denominations for any X other than "Jesus is the son of God" Even if you restrict yourself to Protestantism in the US, you will have trouble generalizing too much; the doctrine of Sola Scriptura[1] is probably the only other universal there. With regards to sexuality, there is very broad agreement that extramarital sex is sinful, but not much more agreement beyond that. Most protestants are accepting of contraception within marriage; Roman Catholic doctrine is opposed to any use of contraception (to the point of the official stance being that HIV positive married persons should never have sex rather than use a condom), however somewhere between "more than half" and 90% of western Catholics disagree with this. James Dobson (A well known Evangelical Protestant psychologist) gets plenty of angry letters any time his stance that masturbation is a normal and healthy part of developing sexuality comes up. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Not sure why child post from aidenn0 is flagged dead, the way I read it it was correct and unoffensive but for what I know it might have been changed after flagging or I might have misread it.

lern_too_spel 10y ago

And sex between a husband and wives is considered greater worship, but sex between wife and husbands is a sin.

mkaziz 10y ago
You sound like you're mocking it, and I almost didn't respond, but here goes (hoping you'll take this in good faith): people in the west like to nitpick on this, but you have to understand that Islam was born in an incredibly sexist environment where when your dad died, you could inherit your stepmothers as wives. Women weren't allowed to own property or inherit. So compared to that, Islam was incredibly progressive (women allowed to own businesses, inherit, entitled to all sorts of benefits in case of marriage, divorce, etc that simply did not exist before). So strictly speaking polygamy is allowed in Islam (man->women, not women->man) but that is not an obligation by any means. As times have changed, culture has changed, people have just stopped doing that as much. I grew up in a conservative, Muslim-majority country and in my 18 years there, I did not meet a single person with multiple wives. I heard of one person though - a man from a village who worked in the city had one wife in each location. I never met this man, but a distant relative knew of him. That's it. Every other person I met was monogamous. I'm not trying to justify something you think is wrong, just giving you a bit of perspective that I hope you'll consider.
- whowalrus 10y ago
  Civil (and informative) comments like yours are why I come to HN.
- lern_too_spel 10y ago
  Your phrasing is curious. You're "not trying to justify something that [I] think is wrong." I would have removed the italicized section entirely. Do you not also think it is wrong that you have heard of a man with multiple wives but not vice-versa?

serge2k 10y ago

Shame about the rest of the attitudes towards women.

mkaziz 10y ago
Eh, I think there's a lot of room for progressivism out there. Problem is that a lot of Muslim-majority countries out there are very much in the dark ages, where the orthodox religious institutions have a chokehold on society, and that is what the world sees. If you actually go and observe Western muslim society (beyond newsmedia fearmongering), women are much much more so on equal footing here, and society thrives for it. I, for one, am very excited to see what direction this new generation of Muslim millenials in the West take the cultural development of Islam. (based on my experience in the US; may not be true of Europe)
- throwaway1892 10y ago
  For Europe, at least where I am, it goes both way, in some parts the women are on equal footing to men, but in other parts it's the opposite, with women seen as inferior to men.