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If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction. And if that's your relationship

If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction. And if that's your relationship to games, then not playing them does sound like a very reasonable choice. On the other end of the spectrum, I myself see video games as my big passion and it's a large part of what I do to unwind and have fun. I would estimate that I typically play 10-20 hours of video games a week in my spare time. In fact, I'm passionate enough about games that I decided from a young age that I wanted to dedicate myself full time to game development and, consequently, that is what I do for a living as a Software Engineer at Ghost Games. So, that is another 40 hours a week that I spend on games. But I do play games simply to have fun and there is the occasional week when I simply don't feel like it. And then I fill my spare time with other activities I enjoy.

rublev 10y ago
>If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction. The stress is in the losing.
- jonmb 10y ago
  Agreed, and this tends to be mostly an aspect of competitive multiplayer gaming. As my spare time for video gaming has diminished, I've been sticking to cooperative online games where all players are on the same team (like Diablo 3), or just playing offline. Replaying the classics is also fun. Will Super Mario Bros 3 ever cease to be enjoyable? Doesn't seem so.
- notheguyouthink 10y ago
  Hell, it's in the winning too. MOBAs are a great example of a game i hate to win or lose, but (not currently) play purely for the rush, teamfights, depth in meta, etc. No game has made me hate winning more than DoTA. It's quite astounding, really. I can fully not-enjoy a match and turn right around and want to play another to hopefully get a good match. Not one i win, specifically, but one that is enjoyable, even if a loss - which entirely depends on the players. I quit playing DoTA (currently) not because of the feelings, but because of the time investment. Long games mean long iteration cycles on my above "just one more game, i want a good game". At 40m chunks, suddenly you're entire night was gone and all i wanted was one game that didn't make me feel like hell. Yes, this is all very addiction sounding, and it's likely not wrong.
  - url00 10y ago
    Have you looked at Battlerite before? I was in the same place as you, except with League of Legends. Loved playing teamfights, tolerated a 15 minute lane phase. But with queue times getting beyond 5 minutes and dodges becoming more common a game could take upwards of an hour from start to finish. Battlerite fixes these issues (and adds a few of course), but the biggest win for me is that the iteration cycle is extremely short - games only last at max 15 minutes. Queue times are fast with no pick/ban phase. You just get in game and get fighting. As someone who was finding traditional MOBAs hard to find time for, I recommend at least looking at it. The percentage of good games in my experience is much higher. One final note though: I would stay away from the subreddit. It makes r/leagueoflegends look good.
    - notheguyouthink 10y ago
      Yup, i actually own it, it's great! Granted, there is still a fair bit of meta, heroes to learn, etc - something i've been avoiding because i've been busy working on side projects. These days with very limited time i've been focusing to co-op friendly time, so my wife and i can play together. Even though i enjoy Battlerite/Dota/etc, i need something that gives me my game enjoyment (whatever i want at the time), and also builds relationships with my wife/etc. That was another bad thing about DoTA, she's not big into PvP games and DoTA is the king of those bad-manner gamers haha. Well, maybe Xbod + CoD holds that record... but imo, DoTA players hurt you more, hah. Anyway, these days we stick to offline co-op games. Astroneer, Divinity Original Sin, and Pit People. All three are excellent for their respective genres (though, 2 of them are in early access and short on content).
  - webkike 10y ago
    I've found that the shorter the game (or rather the "faster" the game) the more likely I am to not find it inherently stressful for that reason. For example, when I played smash brothers it always felt way worse when you lost compared to street fighter because in smash games can take four minutes to finish. In street fighter it's not uncommon to finish a game in 45 seconds. I've also migrated to Tetris the grandmaster because I feel that Tetris helps my brain in particular more than other games. And if I'm not having a good game, or a game is stressing me out too much, I can just quit. And since the games are short, at MOST ten minutes (depending on how fast you are) I can still will myself to go to bed reasonably after "just one good one"
louprado 10y ago
I don't doubt your integrity and passion, but I couldn't resist mentioning that your comment parallels that of people who work in other industries that produce addictive products. Specifically I was reminded by a quote of an owner of a mid-size tobacco farm. For the record, I also did not doubt the farmer's integrity and passion. It's as if a non-addictive personality, or complete abstinence of the industry's product, is a prerequisite for employment.
- Agentlien 10y ago
  I upvoted your comment because I find it genuinely interesting and I do see where you come from, though I didn't see that kind of aspect to it myself when writing my comment. I simply see myself as a gamer who happens to be lucky enough to get to work with something I love. The addictive nature of games and the tendency of games to be designed to deliberately get you hooked is a very common topic of conversation at work. Especially since several of my coworkers have a background in the development of casino games. I find the ethical aspects of it fascinating and a rather intellectually challenging topic. When playing games I don't want to feel like I'm consuming a drug engineered solely to be addictive and I certainly don't want to see myself as a developer of such. On the other hand, I want games to feel engaging and entice me to keep playing and come back for more. As such, addictive is often used as a positively loaded word when talking about games. I feel that I have a good sense of what aspects of a game make up the good kind of addictive and what contributes to the bad kind, but I can't quite formulate a general rule to describe it. The closest I can come is this: - "Good addiction" is when a game rewards you for actual accomplishments and keeps you coming back because you enjoy playing it. - "Bad addiction" is when a game rewards you for simply spending time with it and keeps you coming back simply because you feel quitting would mean missing out on more random rewards. I have at times found myself stuck in one of those bad reward loops, but it usually only takes me a short while to identify it as such. When I do, I quit playing that game. Yes, video game addiction is a serious problem and I do agree that there are very unethical practices going on in parts of the video game industry. But I also feel that this isn't necessarily part of what makes a video game. I'm guessing that's also an argument similar to what a tobacco farmer would say.
  - 10y ago
stcredzero 10y ago
If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction. The problem is, that variable schedule of reward and social validation are both very potent means of altering human behavior which can be used to extract money from them. How often do people who play games report, "I don't know why I'm doing this. It's not even fun anymore." The Extra Credits YouTube channel talks about this as well. There is a temptation that must be resisted, where variable schedule of reward addiction can be used to replace fun. What is the record of companies resisting the temptation to do something unregulated, that they can make money at? Heck, I don't even know if we have a good metric for the degree of use of variable schedule of reward.
- pjc50 10y ago
  This is an important thing, that "games" covers a huge range of things with different levels of "addiction", pricing, playable length, thematic complexity, social relevance, etc. Even more so than saying "TV" or "film".
FreezerburnV 10y ago
The idea of unwinding while playing a video game is interesting to me. While I can easily say that I can unwind while playing a video game, I've found that despite my passion for them, when I'm at my most (mentally?) tired they tend to be pretty far down on my list for unwinding. What I've come to realize is that, in general, the games that I personally play are not generally in what I might consider an "unwind" category. I find that it takes actual mental effort to not only start my favorite games, but it takes effort to play them, causing the initial friction in starting them. And since this is all anecdotal based on my own personal experience, I'll add in some examples and explanation for my personal realization: * Skullgirls: A fighting game I legitimately want to get good at, so time spent playing it is time spent practicing what I'm bad at or just getting certain combos more consistent. Though to be fair, fighting games in general are not put into a category of games to relax with, it's just one of my top played games right now. * Stardew Valley: I want to play more of this, but there is a LOT going on in this game. Each day the player has to figure out what they're going to focus on for small goals, work toward larger goals, pick from a bunch of different potential activities, etc. And everything done is always time limited both in actual in-game time and stamina, so there's always some kind of pressure to be perfectly efficient. (and I think I've been spoiled in that something happens after a few years in-game, so there's even MORE pressure, gah!) * The Witness: I really want to finish this game, but it's not something to play casually. The puzzles can get brutally difficult, requiring me to keep relatively extensive notes on some of them, and there are a ton of puzzle types to learn without someone telling you how they work, requiring "debugging" of the rules. Generally with highly complicated rules that might require learning a new subtlety to the rules long after the training area. On top of that, there's the "hidden" content that I need to keep my eye out for. * Demon's Souls/Dark Souls/Bloodborne: I don't think I need to explain why these require effort to play. They're hard, require memorization, muscle memory, and gitting gud, with failure requiring you to re-do what can be relatively large levels over and over and over again. But when you beat a boss: that dopamine hit is nuts. * Monster Hunter: Similar category to the Souls games, except there generally aren't large levels, you just have to re-do all the damage you originally did to a monster. Potentially needing to gather more materials for the hunt. Which can take a while. And boy howdy do those monsters NOT want you to hit them in the face with a giant sword. * ...and there are other games that are just not coming to mind right now, but hopefully some kind of point was made. With the amount of decision making, pressures on the player to perform, things to learn, etc. in games these days, it honestly feels more relaxing most times to do dishes, edit photographs, write, watch some Netflix with my wife, or whatever else there is to do on any given day. Most times I don't play games unless I'm feeling good enough with enough mental stamina to enjoy the challenges posed, or I'm forcing myself to get better at Skullgirls so I don't get crushed in an upcoming tournament. So yeah, games as a leisure activity is an interesting concept to me ;) I also recommend not taking what I wrote as some kind of negative. I love games! I love playing them, I love talking about them and analyzing them, and someday I'm hoping I can love making them full time like you instead of occasionally working on a side project in my spare time. I just believe they offer more cognitive load in general than seems to get addressed.

rublev 10y ago

>If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction. The stress is in the losing.

jonmb 10y ago
Agreed, and this tends to be mostly an aspect of competitive multiplayer gaming. As my spare time for video gaming has diminished, I've been sticking to cooperative online games where all players are on the same team (like Diablo 3), or just playing offline. Replaying the classics is also fun. Will Super Mario Bros 3 ever cease to be enjoyable? Doesn't seem so.
notheguyouthink 10y ago
Hell, it's in the winning too. MOBAs are a great example of a game i hate to win or lose, but (not currently) play purely for the rush, teamfights, depth in meta, etc. No game has made me hate winning more than DoTA. It's quite astounding, really. I can fully not-enjoy a match and turn right around and want to play another to hopefully get a good match. Not one i win, specifically, but one that is enjoyable, even if a loss - which entirely depends on the players. I quit playing DoTA (currently) not because of the feelings, but because of the time investment. Long games mean long iteration cycles on my above "just one more game, i want a good game". At 40m chunks, suddenly you're entire night was gone and all i wanted was one game that didn't make me feel like hell. Yes, this is all very addiction sounding, and it's likely not wrong.
- url00 10y ago
  Have you looked at Battlerite before? I was in the same place as you, except with League of Legends. Loved playing teamfights, tolerated a 15 minute lane phase. But with queue times getting beyond 5 minutes and dodges becoming more common a game could take upwards of an hour from start to finish. Battlerite fixes these issues (and adds a few of course), but the biggest win for me is that the iteration cycle is extremely short - games only last at max 15 minutes. Queue times are fast with no pick/ban phase. You just get in game and get fighting. As someone who was finding traditional MOBAs hard to find time for, I recommend at least looking at it. The percentage of good games in my experience is much higher. One final note though: I would stay away from the subreddit. It makes r/leagueoflegends look good.
  - notheguyouthink 10y ago
    Yup, i actually own it, it's great! Granted, there is still a fair bit of meta, heroes to learn, etc - something i've been avoiding because i've been busy working on side projects. These days with very limited time i've been focusing to co-op friendly time, so my wife and i can play together. Even though i enjoy Battlerite/Dota/etc, i need something that gives me my game enjoyment (whatever i want at the time), and also builds relationships with my wife/etc. That was another bad thing about DoTA, she's not big into PvP games and DoTA is the king of those bad-manner gamers haha. Well, maybe Xbod + CoD holds that record... but imo, DoTA players hurt you more, hah. Anyway, these days we stick to offline co-op games. Astroneer, Divinity Original Sin, and Pit People. All three are excellent for their respective genres (though, 2 of them are in early access and short on content).
- webkike 10y ago
  I've found that the shorter the game (or rather the "faster" the game) the more likely I am to not find it inherently stressful for that reason. For example, when I played smash brothers it always felt way worse when you lost compared to street fighter because in smash games can take four minutes to finish. In street fighter it's not uncommon to finish a game in 45 seconds. I've also migrated to Tetris the grandmaster because I feel that Tetris helps my brain in particular more than other games. And if I'm not having a good game, or a game is stressing me out too much, I can just quit. And since the games are short, at MOST ten minutes (depending on how fast you are) I can still will myself to go to bed reasonably after "just one good one"

louprado 10y ago

I don't doubt your integrity and passion, but I couldn't resist mentioning that your comment parallels that of people who work in other industries that produce addictive products. Specifically I was reminded by a quote of an owner of a mid-size tobacco farm. For the record, I also did not doubt the farmer's integrity and passion. It's as if a non-addictive personality, or complete abstinence of the industry's product, is a prerequisite for employment.

Agentlien 10y ago
I upvoted your comment because I find it genuinely interesting and I do see where you come from, though I didn't see that kind of aspect to it myself when writing my comment. I simply see myself as a gamer who happens to be lucky enough to get to work with something I love. The addictive nature of games and the tendency of games to be designed to deliberately get you hooked is a very common topic of conversation at work. Especially since several of my coworkers have a background in the development of casino games. I find the ethical aspects of it fascinating and a rather intellectually challenging topic. When playing games I don't want to feel like I'm consuming a drug engineered solely to be addictive and I certainly don't want to see myself as a developer of such. On the other hand, I want games to feel engaging and entice me to keep playing and come back for more. As such, addictive is often used as a positively loaded word when talking about games. I feel that I have a good sense of what aspects of a game make up the good kind of addictive and what contributes to the bad kind, but I can't quite formulate a general rule to describe it. The closest I can come is this: - "Good addiction" is when a game rewards you for actual accomplishments and keeps you coming back because you enjoy playing it. - "Bad addiction" is when a game rewards you for simply spending time with it and keeps you coming back simply because you feel quitting would mean missing out on more random rewards. I have at times found myself stuck in one of those bad reward loops, but it usually only takes me a short while to identify it as such. When I do, I quit playing that game. Yes, video game addiction is a serious problem and I do agree that there are very unethical practices going on in parts of the video game industry. But I also feel that this isn't necessarily part of what makes a video game. I'm guessing that's also an argument similar to what a tobacco farmer would say.
- 10y ago

stcredzero 10y ago

If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction. The problem is, that variable schedule of reward and social validation are both very potent means of altering human behavior which can be used to extract money from them. How often do people who play games report, "I don't know why I'm doing this. It's not even fun anymore." The Extra Credits YouTube channel talks about this as well. There is a temptation that must be resisted, where variable schedule of reward addiction can be used to replace fun. What is the record of companies resisting the temptation to do something unregulated, that they can make money at? Heck, I don't even know if we have a good metric for the degree of use of variable schedule of reward.

pjc50 10y ago
This is an important thing, that "games" covers a huge range of things with different levels of "addiction", pricing, playable length, thematic complexity, social relevance, etc. Even more so than saying "TV" or "film".

FreezerburnV 10y ago

The idea of unwinding while playing a video game is interesting to me. While I can easily say that I can unwind while playing a video game, I've found that despite my passion for them, when I'm at my most (mentally?) tired they tend to be pretty far down on my list for unwinding. What I've come to realize is that, in general, the games that I personally play are not generally in what I might consider an "unwind" category. I find that it takes actual mental effort to not only start my favorite games, but it takes effort to play them, causing the initial friction in starting them. And since this is all anecdotal based on my own personal experience, I'll add in some examples and explanation for my personal realization: * Skullgirls: A fighting game I legitimately want to get good at, so time spent playing it is time spent practicing what I'm bad at or just getting certain combos more consistent. Though to be fair, fighting games in general are not put into a category of games to relax with, it's just one of my top played games right now. * Stardew Valley: I want to play more of this, but there is a LOT going on in this game. Each day the player has to figure out what they're going to focus on for small goals, work toward larger goals, pick from a bunch of different potential activities, etc. And everything done is always time limited both in actual in-game time and stamina, so there's always some kind of pressure to be perfectly efficient. (and I think I've been spoiled in that something happens after a few years in-game, so there's even MORE pressure, gah!) * The Witness: I really want to finish this game, but it's not something to play casually. The puzzles can get brutally difficult, requiring me to keep relatively extensive notes on some of them, and there are a ton of puzzle types to learn without someone telling you how they work, requiring "debugging" of the rules. Generally with highly complicated rules that might require learning a new subtlety to the rules long after the training area. On top of that, there's the "hidden" content that I need to keep my eye out for. * Demon's Souls/Dark Souls/Bloodborne: I don't think I need to explain why these require effort to play. They're hard, require memorization, muscle memory, and gitting gud, with failure requiring you to re-do what can be relatively large levels over and over and over again. But when you beat a boss: that dopamine hit is nuts. * Monster Hunter: Similar category to the Souls games, except there generally aren't large levels, you just have to re-do all the damage you originally did to a monster. Potentially needing to gather more materials for the hunt. Which can take a while. And boy howdy do those monsters NOT want you to hit them in the face with a giant sword. * ...and there are other games that are just not coming to mind right now, but hopefully some kind of point was made. With the amount of decision making, pressures on the player to perform, things to learn, etc. in games these days, it honestly feels more relaxing most times to do dishes, edit photographs, write, watch some Netflix with my wife, or whatever else there is to do on any given day. Most times I don't play games unless I'm feeling good enough with enough mental stamina to enjoy the challenges posed, or I'm forcing myself to get better at Skullgirls so I don't get crushed in an upcoming tournament. So yeah, games as a leisure activity is an interesting concept to me ;) I also recommend not taking what I wrote as some kind of negative. I love games! I love playing them, I love talking about them and analyzing them, and someday I'm hoping I can love making them full time like you instead of occasionally working on a side project in my spare time. I just believe they offer more cognitive load in general than seems to get addressed.