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Oh my god stop. You're all over this thread. What bit you? This is the price you pay for staying on an old version. You do not get to stick to an old version A

Oh my god stop. You're all over this thread. What bit you? This is the price you pay for staying on an old version. You do not get to stick to an old version AND demand that others do too. You CAN stay on Python 2. You CAN stay on Django 1.11. It's LTS. So is Python 2.7. You get to use both until 2020 with no issues. After that, not upgrading is a technical debt that will start to accrue, faster and faster as you can no longer use recent versions of various software. You are free to make your infrastructure immutable; you then become responsible for it of course. And the money you're not willing to spend porting to Python 3 today will be money you spend on costs related to being on outdated infrastructure, years in the future. That's a tradeoff. Banks do it a lot I hear. A bunch of companies still use ancient hardware and technologies nobody would think of starting a business with today. These companies make billions. You know what the employees of these companies aren't doing? They're not bitching on HN that the tech they're using is no longer supported.

coldtea 10y ago
>Oh my god stop. You're all over this thread. What bit you? As someone who has 6 comments in this thread yourself, I don't think you are in position to complaint. I also find "what bit you" and "please stop" rude. You don't get to dictate what others opinion should be. >This is the price you pay for staying on an old version. You do not get to stick to an old version AND demand that others do too. 7+ years on and the "old" version has more users than the new one. That's a fact supported by numbers. So maybe you want to recheck with reality whether the transition was a success instead of arguing with me? Not all transitions go well, the Perl 6 transition killed Perl, the PHP 4 to 5 transition (another major one) went quite smoothly.
- scrollaway 10y ago
  > As someone who has 6 comments in this thread yourself, I don't think you are in position to complaint. This isn't a numbers contest. Unlike yours, none of my comments are shitting on the efforts of volunteers that are doing their best to keep people like you happy and making money using a project you're not paying for. > So maybe you want to recheck with reality whether the transition was a success instead of arguing with me? You completely missed the point.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    > making money using a project you're not paying for says who? It this the standard FOSS strives for?
    - scrollaway 10y ago
      Where do you get the idea that it's OK to "demand" things from a project when you're not paying for it? FOSS gives you freedom to do these things on your own. Money gets you other people doing it for you.
      - Chris2048 10y ago
        Why is "demand" in scare-quotes? I never said that, and it's a loaded term. The issue here is suggesting you shouldn't freely criticise flaws in FOSS software. This is harmful, and goes directly to affecting information people have available to them in choosing whether or not to use a piece of software in the first place. Do you actually know what money/time OP might be spending, losing, or making on Django? > FOSS gives you freedom to do these things on your own. Money gets you other people doing it for you. What a cop out. A lack of being paid (money at least) doesn't imply no obligations, nor freedom from criticism. Do you speak for every Django contributor?
        scrollaway 10y ago
        > Why is "demand" in scare-quotes? I never said that, and it's a loaded term. Because I was referring to coldtea's demands. > What a cop out. A lack of being paid (money at least) doesn't imply no obligations, nor freedom from criticism. Excellent, then you should be fine with me criticizing the attitude that's been displayed here. > The issue here is suggesting you shouldn't freely criticise flaws in FOSS software. This is harmful, and goes directly to affecting information people have available to them in choosing whether or not to use a piece of software ion the first place. Why is this the conclusion you draw from my posts? I said it before, the Python 3 transition sucked. It's something we kind of all agree on. There is plenty of criticism to be made. However, I really want to recontextualize this: Django is an open source project, maintained by a non-profit. Python is an open source project, maintained by a non-profit. The projects in question, with "tens of millions of lines of Python 2 code" (only a tiny amount of which would need to be ported, but I disgress...), are most often for-profit projects. Yeah, it's a bit rich. This is the same as the IE6 situation: Want support for it? Pay extra for it! You should not expect free support for technology for which the EOL was announced years in advance just because you're using a lot of it. And you will have no issue finding paid support. Heck tell you what, if you do, shoot me an email, I do contract work sometimes. You know why FOSS is great? It's great because the PSF/DSF do not get to revoke your license to use the software they're no longer supporting. You get to use it forever. This is your freedom and it's a good one. Make use of it!
dang 10y ago
Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13436656 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13436656. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13434460 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13434460 and marked it off-topic.

coldtea 10y ago

>Oh my god stop. You're all over this thread. What bit you? As someone who has 6 comments in this thread yourself, I don't think you are in position to complaint. I also find "what bit you" and "please stop" rude. You don't get to dictate what others opinion should be. >This is the price you pay for staying on an old version. You do not get to stick to an old version AND demand that others do too. 7+ years on and the "old" version has more users than the new one. That's a fact supported by numbers. So maybe you want to recheck with reality whether the transition was a success instead of arguing with me? Not all transitions go well, the Perl 6 transition killed Perl, the PHP 4 to 5 transition (another major one) went quite smoothly.

scrollaway 10y ago
> As someone who has 6 comments in this thread yourself, I don't think you are in position to complaint. This isn't a numbers contest. Unlike yours, none of my comments are shitting on the efforts of volunteers that are doing their best to keep people like you happy and making money using a project you're not paying for. > So maybe you want to recheck with reality whether the transition was a success instead of arguing with me? You completely missed the point.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  > making money using a project you're not paying for says who? It this the standard FOSS strives for?
  - scrollaway 10y ago
    Where do you get the idea that it's OK to "demand" things from a project when you're not paying for it? FOSS gives you freedom to do these things on your own. Money gets you other people doing it for you.
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      Why is "demand" in scare-quotes? I never said that, and it's a loaded term. The issue here is suggesting you shouldn't freely criticise flaws in FOSS software. This is harmful, and goes directly to affecting information people have available to them in choosing whether or not to use a piece of software in the first place. Do you actually know what money/time OP might be spending, losing, or making on Django? > FOSS gives you freedom to do these things on your own. Money gets you other people doing it for you. What a cop out. A lack of being paid (money at least) doesn't imply no obligations, nor freedom from criticism. Do you speak for every Django contributor?
      - scrollaway 10y ago
        > Why is "demand" in scare-quotes? I never said that, and it's a loaded term. Because I was referring to coldtea's demands. > What a cop out. A lack of being paid (money at least) doesn't imply no obligations, nor freedom from criticism. Excellent, then you should be fine with me criticizing the attitude that's been displayed here. > The issue here is suggesting you shouldn't freely criticise flaws in FOSS software. This is harmful, and goes directly to affecting information people have available to them in choosing whether or not to use a piece of software ion the first place. Why is this the conclusion you draw from my posts? I said it before, the Python 3 transition sucked. It's something we kind of all agree on. There is plenty of criticism to be made. However, I really want to recontextualize this: Django is an open source project, maintained by a non-profit. Python is an open source project, maintained by a non-profit. The projects in question, with "tens of millions of lines of Python 2 code" (only a tiny amount of which would need to be ported, but I disgress...), are most often for-profit projects. Yeah, it's a bit rich. This is the same as the IE6 situation: Want support for it? Pay extra for it! You should not expect free support for technology for which the EOL was announced years in advance just because you're using a lot of it. And you will have no issue finding paid support. Heck tell you what, if you do, shoot me an email, I do contract work sometimes. You know why FOSS is great? It's great because the PSF/DSF do not get to revoke your license to use the software they're no longer supporting. You get to use it forever. This is your freedom and it's a good one. Make use of it!

dang 10y ago

Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13436656 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13436656. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13434460 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13434460 and marked it off-topic.