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OK, I'll bite, why exactly do you believe women don't want the opportunity to work on oil rigs? http://www.warrensiurek.com/blog/2015/04/5-women-claim-gender-d

OK, I'll bite, why exactly do you believe women don't want the opportunity to work on oil rigs? http://www.warrensiurek.com/blog/2015/04/5-women-claim-gender-discrimination-after-they-were-denied-jobs.shtml http://www.warrensiurek.com/blog/2015/04/5-women-claim-gende... >The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has filed a claim on behalf of five women against an oil drilling company in another state. According to the complaint, the women applied for jobs to work as floor hands on the oil rigs, but they were turned down. The women allegedly all had the proper qualifications to be able to perform the functions of the job. >The women were allegedly told that females were not hired on the rig because it was populated by all men and that women would not fit into the company's "man camp" mentality. The women also claim they were turned down because they were too attractive. If they were hired, they were purportedly told they would be a distraction to the men, who would be unable to get their work done.

wallace_f 10y ago
No sane person genuinely believes just as many woman as men want to work on oil rigs, or that it's even close. That's a very surprising case, yet very American, lawsuit though.
- prutschman 10y ago
  If it's surprising to you that there are women who want to work on oil rigs, and want that badly enough to go through the trouble of making a case out of it, then you may need to update your beliefs about what it means to be a woman.
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    Give me a break. You are insane if you think auto mechanics, miners, truck drivers, plumbers, construction workers, landscapers, or working on fishing vessels, or other physically demanding, laborious jobs, are not preferred more by men than women. 5 women and 1 court case (and no lawyer ever set up a lawsuit like that, right?) does not change all of those facts. You need to realize that your worldview and own personal politics of 'what it means to be a woman' has nothing to do with this topic. Even if it did, the vast majority of women do not want those jobs as much as men do, and you would need to prove prevalent, institutional bias, not discuss what it means to be a woman, to show that this is not true. That does not mean there is not 1 woman who does not love her job as a truck driver. Or 5 woman who love their jobs as truck driver. Nor does it mean women should be prevented from being truck drivers. That's not what this is about though. This is about political correctness and lawyers, not about human welfare and civil rights.
    - louhike 10y ago
      "You are insane if you think auto mechanics, miners, truck drivers, plumbers, construction workers, landscapers, or working on fishing vessels, or other physically demanding, laborious jobs, are not preferred more by men than women." Then why developers are mostly men? And why there is more and more female football/soccer players? It might be harder for females to get muscles, compared to men but it does not mean they do not want to do and can do physically demanding jobs.
    - dkersten 10y ago
      You are insane if you think auto mechanics, miners, truck drivers, plumbers, construction workers, landscapers, or working on fishing vessels, or other physically demanding, laborious jobs, are not preferred more by men than women. Yeah, and girls prefer pink... How much of this is because of how women are brought up, believing that these are mens jobs, rather than by nature? Women do plenty of physically demanding jobs, just not generally these stereotypical "mens" jobs. Hell, if you look at poorer countries, you see women doing all kinds of physically demanding stuff like carrying water for miles. Its not that they can't or won't do them when they have to, its that when they have a choice that they don't and I believe that's because from a young age and in media these things are portrayed as very un-womanly.
      - xyzzyz 10y ago
        In poor countries, there are plenty of women doing physically exhausting jobs, but also plenty of women pursuing engineering careers. On the other hand, in many rich countries most jobs have huge gender disparities. It all comes down to the freedom of choice given to people -- if you're rich and you're free to choose what you are going to do, you'll choose whatever you like the most.
        dkersten 10y ago
        I agree with what you say. My point is just that "whatever you like the most" is biased by your upbringing, culture and media. Hence my "girls prefer pink" comment - that's not nature, its nurture - because we're brought up to associate pink with femininity.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  Nice moving the goal posts there, this is what I was replying to "Women will never be asking for equal "opportunity" working jobs in the north sea on offshore oil rigs." QED I will not be engaging you further.
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    Use of the word 'never' opened me up to an 'exception to the rule' attack. It was not the most careful word choice, and so I stand corrected that there are 5 women who apparently wanted to work offshore. I'm not talking about 5 women. We're talking about trends. There are always exceptions. OK, so convince me you're right. Ignoring your condescending, short-termpered, dismissive remark based on attacking some minutiae in what I said (that we can both agree doesn't change anything), we now have an example of one very American, money-making lawsuit, representing 5 people. Alright, so what substantial movement can you source to convince me that you are right that women are seeking equal representation working on oil rigs in the north sea? What about auto mechanics? Plubming? There's many entrepreneurial businesses such as those that require no hiring decision. Why are women so underrepresented there? The work is much less physically demanding or as dangerous as working on off shore oil rigs.
    - dannypgh 10y ago
      The first 5 women who are seeking jobs on an all-male oil rig perhaps have a form of bravery that is a couple standard deviations from the median. But if they win their case and help to integrate oil rigs, it seems the next 5 women to seek a job on an oil rig will be easier to find. Fields that are not diverse are less attractive to diversity candidates, but that doesn't mean that diversity candidates wouldn't be interested in working in a more integrated environment.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]

wallace_f 10y ago

No sane person genuinely believes just as many woman as men want to work on oil rigs, or that it's even close. That's a very surprising case, yet very American, lawsuit though.

prutschman 10y ago
If it's surprising to you that there are women who want to work on oil rigs, and want that badly enough to go through the trouble of making a case out of it, then you may need to update your beliefs about what it means to be a woman.
- wallace_f 10y ago
  Give me a break. You are insane if you think auto mechanics, miners, truck drivers, plumbers, construction workers, landscapers, or working on fishing vessels, or other physically demanding, laborious jobs, are not preferred more by men than women. 5 women and 1 court case (and no lawyer ever set up a lawsuit like that, right?) does not change all of those facts. You need to realize that your worldview and own personal politics of 'what it means to be a woman' has nothing to do with this topic. Even if it did, the vast majority of women do not want those jobs as much as men do, and you would need to prove prevalent, institutional bias, not discuss what it means to be a woman, to show that this is not true. That does not mean there is not 1 woman who does not love her job as a truck driver. Or 5 woman who love their jobs as truck driver. Nor does it mean women should be prevented from being truck drivers. That's not what this is about though. This is about political correctness and lawyers, not about human welfare and civil rights.
  - louhike 10y ago
    "You are insane if you think auto mechanics, miners, truck drivers, plumbers, construction workers, landscapers, or working on fishing vessels, or other physically demanding, laborious jobs, are not preferred more by men than women." Then why developers are mostly men? And why there is more and more female football/soccer players? It might be harder for females to get muscles, compared to men but it does not mean they do not want to do and can do physically demanding jobs.
  - dkersten 10y ago
    You are insane if you think auto mechanics, miners, truck drivers, plumbers, construction workers, landscapers, or working on fishing vessels, or other physically demanding, laborious jobs, are not preferred more by men than women. Yeah, and girls prefer pink... How much of this is because of how women are brought up, believing that these are mens jobs, rather than by nature? Women do plenty of physically demanding jobs, just not generally these stereotypical "mens" jobs. Hell, if you look at poorer countries, you see women doing all kinds of physically demanding stuff like carrying water for miles. Its not that they can't or won't do them when they have to, its that when they have a choice that they don't and I believe that's because from a young age and in media these things are portrayed as very un-womanly.
    - xyzzyz 10y ago
      In poor countries, there are plenty of women doing physically exhausting jobs, but also plenty of women pursuing engineering careers. On the other hand, in many rich countries most jobs have huge gender disparities. It all comes down to the freedom of choice given to people -- if you're rich and you're free to choose what you are going to do, you'll choose whatever you like the most.
      - dkersten 10y ago
        I agree with what you say. My point is just that "whatever you like the most" is biased by your upbringing, culture and media. Hence my "girls prefer pink" comment - that's not nature, its nurture - because we're brought up to associate pink with femininity.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
Nice moving the goal posts there, this is what I was replying to "Women will never be asking for equal "opportunity" working jobs in the north sea on offshore oil rigs." QED I will not be engaging you further.
- wallace_f 10y ago
  Use of the word 'never' opened me up to an 'exception to the rule' attack. It was not the most careful word choice, and so I stand corrected that there are 5 women who apparently wanted to work offshore. I'm not talking about 5 women. We're talking about trends. There are always exceptions. OK, so convince me you're right. Ignoring your condescending, short-termpered, dismissive remark based on attacking some minutiae in what I said (that we can both agree doesn't change anything), we now have an example of one very American, money-making lawsuit, representing 5 people. Alright, so what substantial movement can you source to convince me that you are right that women are seeking equal representation working on oil rigs in the north sea? What about auto mechanics? Plubming? There's many entrepreneurial businesses such as those that require no hiring decision. Why are women so underrepresented there? The work is much less physically demanding or as dangerous as working on off shore oil rigs.
  - dannypgh 10y ago
    The first 5 women who are seeking jobs on an all-male oil rig perhaps have a form of bravery that is a couple standard deviations from the median. But if they win their case and help to integrate oil rigs, it seems the next 5 women to seek a job on an oil rig will be easier to find. Fields that are not diverse are less attractive to diversity candidates, but that doesn't mean that diversity candidates wouldn't be interested in working in a more integrated environment.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]