17 ms·

Staying with the US Digital Service

330 points by Matt_Cutts 10y ago

Matt_Cutts 10y ago
Let me know if folks have any questions, but I left Google on Dec. 31, 2016.
- wjossey 10y ago
  Best of luck Matt- I miss hearing you on the TWiT network, but I'm truly proud and inspired by the work you're doing. Continue to lead, and others will follow.
  - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
    I'd love to get back to talk to Leo Laporte at some point--maybe when things quiet down a bit.
- ipsin 10y ago
  Since you pitch the USDS to tech people, please let us know: how free do you feel to speak your mind on political matters, or to effect those positive outcomes? Personally I've judged the quality of incoming political appointees, and I would chafe at working under leadership I could not respect. In my worst imagination, I would be holding down a desk until it could be filled by the employees of well-connected contractors. You describe it as "incredibly frustrating" now. How do you think you can keep that work "deeply important and inspiring"?
  - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
    First I'll add the disclaimer that this is my personal opinion. I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself. I think the mission of the US Digital Service is fundamentally non-partisan: we want to make government work better for the American people. When a veteran can apply for health benefits online, they have a better experience. But it also saves the money from them driving to see someone in person. There's so much work like that to do that everyone agrees will make the government better, more responsive, and more efficient. I also think the USDS has built up some reputation and trust because of the good work that it's been able to do so far. I'm heartened when folks like Kevin McCarthy (majority leader in the House of Representatives) tweet things like this: https://twitter.com/gopleader/status/796823547343736837 https://twitter.com/gopleader/status/796823547343736837 At Google, I didn't always agree with what the CEO decided to do, like shutting down Google Reader. Sigh. But there was a ton of important work to do, and concentrating on the common ground made it possible to do really good things.
    - easychewie 10y ago
      > First I'll add the disclaimer that this is my personal opinion. I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself. And there it is. One of many reasons I'll never work for the government again. The government is so PC-sensitive that dude can't even post on HN without a mildly disguised form of legalese. When I was in the Air Force, everything I said had to be prefaced with The views expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Air force, Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government. One might think this is a minor complaint but after years of death by 1,000 cuts, you just can't take it anymore.
      - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
        To be fair, I often said that online when I was working for Google as well.
        johnward 10y ago
        This is common amongst all megacorps. They can use anything you say on social media against you if it makes them look bad. The disclaimer doesn't really matter but I still put one in my profile. Basically, it's not just the government that goes too far into private life.
      - spoon16 10y ago
        It is very common on HN to put a disclaimer like this on posts. I do not think this has anything to do with Matt working for the government.
      - quanticle 10y ago
        Except that's also policy for most large corporations, as well. If you're working at some place like Microsoft or Google, it's required policy that you preface anything you say about Microsoft or Google with a statement that these statements are your personal opinions only and do not reflect the policy of the company.
      - eddieroger 10y ago
- walrus01 10y ago
  What are your thoughts on the theft of the entire contents of everyone's SF-86 from the OPM? I've had a security clearance in the past and all of my personal info was part of the data breach[1]. Incidents like this are one of the reasons why I would not work for the federal government again, except as contractor at much higher than standard federal scale pay rate. It's just not worth it in the personal hassle to go through the intrusive background check/clearance process. 1: https://www.google.com/search?q=SF-86+breach+opm&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b https://www.google.com/search?q=SF-86+breach+opm&ie=utf-8&oe... Second question: What level of clearance do your direct reports require? Secret? TS?
  - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
    Yup, my personal data was stolen in the OPM breach too, because I interned for the government when I was in college. But the USDS helped in the aftermath of the OPM breach. In fact, one of my first USDS projects after joining was a collaboration with 18F and the Dept. of Defense on a better version of the SF-86 and a more secure background investigation system. Without getting into weeds too much, there's lots of good work happening to make it easy to join the federal government or enlist in the military. There is a background check process as part of joining USDS, but we keep looking at ways to make signing up easier, e.g. trying to make the process faster.
    - jbapple 10y ago
      > Without getting into weeds too much, there's lots of good work happening to make it easy to join the federal government or enlist in the military. Why is it good to make it easy to enlist in the military?
      - danso 10y ago
        We have a volunteer corps. For a lot of people, the military is one of the best job options as it also offers paid education via the G.I. Bill.
        10y ago
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  No questions, just a compliment. After going through the USDS interview process and declining an offer, I have nothing but appreciation for those who serve there knowing what's involved to be selected, onboarded, and what the day to day looks like. Best of luck as your journey there continues.
  - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
    I'll pass that feedback on--thank you!
    - nowarninglabel 10y ago
      I'll tag on here to compliment the usds.gov/join site. Great job at outlining everything upfront to make it easy for people to figure out if it's right for them. Might lift some inspiration from it. And thank you for serving!
  - ganley 10y ago
    Totally agree. I'm inspired by what they do, but working there would involve a big pay cut and a punishing commute, so (with some sadness) nope.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    I don't want to be too negative here, but I had the opposite experience. I didn't like the little bit of the process I actually got to experience, did not get a good feeling from either the job description or the one interview I had what the USDS is actually looking for, and found the canned rejection email to be a bit condescending.
    - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
      Just wanted to say sorry that you had a bad experience. Would you mind if I asked when you applied and went through the process? I'm curious whether your experience was a recent bad one.
      - 10y ago
- HappyTypist 10y ago
  I'm sure working for the US Digital Service is incredibly rewarding and much more so than perks like free lunches, but do you think offering free lunches will help reduce a common perception of 'bureaucracy' with government jobs?
- the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
  I'm curious how you see the future of the USDS with the new president.
- skybrian 10y ago
  You might want to update your Hacker News profile :-)
- jdmath 10y ago
  Not a question, I wanted to say that I am impressed with vets.gov and the pace of improvement. Thank you and your team for the work that you do! I can see it getting way better than ebenefits. Hoping it will allow vets more access to their information such as C-File and medical records without a FOIA request.
  - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
    I love vets.gov. Starting with benefits was great, but secure messaging with doctors, filling prescriptions--there's lots of great stuff going on there. While I've got you, are there 2-3 things that you would most like to see on vets.gov in the future?
brandonb 10y ago
Just wanted to say: thank you for your service!
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  Thanks, Brandon. And thank you for your service on healthcare.gov!
new_hackers 10y ago
What is the mood like with Trump coming into office? Is USDS going to remain alive and well?
- new_hackers 10y ago
  Also same question for code.gov
- thogenhaven 10y ago
  There is a good article about it here: https://backchannel.com/the-final-days-of-obamas-tech-surge-864b9bf60d34#.pip8ad4cd https://backchannel.com/the-final-days-of-obamas-tech-surge-... "I also spoke to a number of former team members. Publicly, almost all of them expressed optimism that the work would continue: The transition was proceeding cordially, the efforts to reform government IT were bipartisan, and Congress would back their efforts, which had already saved money for taxpayers and delivered services for citizens. But lurking behind every statement was an existential dread that Donald Trump would either pull the plug on one of the great achievements of the last eight years, or worse — he might order the best and brightest to work on projects that violated their moral codes. If those fears were confirmed, it would mean the end of one of the most inspiring developments in government in years — and a backwards step for a bureaucracy that had for too long ignored the nation’s most powerful tools."
  - thisnotmyacc 10y ago
    > But lurking behind every statement was an existential dread That sums up the mood in the media: existential dread.Not real. Not tangible. Not verifiable. Existential. I doubt the Donald is going to mess with making the awful process of dealing with government easier. Existential is non-tangible for a reason I guess.
    - throwaway942024 10y ago
      That's not what "existential dread" means.
  - 10y ago
1888franklin 10y ago
Howdy Matt - will you build a Muslim registry if Trump orders it or Congress passes it?
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  Not sure why this was downvoted. It's a very valid question considering the times we live in.
  - hnbro 10y ago
    if not this person, someone else will. so it just boils down to asking what his personal political views are.
    - 1888franklin 10y ago
      You state this as simple fact, but is it so? Delivering enterprise software is very hard. Matt suggests that USDS was necessary to rescue healthcare.gov, for example. The labor pool of skilled coders is smaller vs. demand than for many other professions. If the top 500 coders declined to participate in a project that savagely violates human rights - and encouraged this as a norm in our communities - isn't it plausible that doing so could either prevent, derail, or meaningfully weaken such a project? I concede that we cannot prevent some software from being created. But there is a great qualitative difference between any software and effective software. And if there isn't, and our creativity/labor doesn't matter in creating such a difference, then what is all this talk on HN about? besides... "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."
      - prostoalex 10y ago
        > If the top 500 coders declined to participate in a project that savagely violates human rights - and encouraged this as a norm in our communities - isn't it plausible that doing so could either prevent, derail, or meaningfully weaken such a project? Not sure what the top 500 vote totals were on this, but when Snowden's documents revealed existence of a massive domestic surveillance program that included large amounts of data collection, parsing and analysis, most people were surprised at the breadth, depth and sheer amount of data. Worth noting that it was developed without any significant leaks either, which spells doubt on the idea that top 500 were even invited to express their stance on the subject, which nevertheless did not force the project into derailment. For all we know, some might have participated, through a government or a third-party contract that did not specify exact goals of the project and provided limited view into the overarching theme. One thing that's hard to judge from the outside is the quality and efficiency of that code. It could be very bad indeed.
Keverw 10y ago
I wonder how the USDS is different than the 18F? Seems like they both are doing the same thing, why not just merge them?
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  USDS and 18F serve in pretty different roles. USDS often comes in when there's a crisis or a high presidential priority, because the organization sits in the office of the President. 18F is located in the General Services Administration and is especially strong when looking at the medium- to long-term goals of an organization. I'd also say that 18F thinks more about culture change than many parts of the USDS. They also have different funding mechanisms that lead to different operating models. USDS funding comes out of a budget called ITOR and we can represent a source of "free" engineers for an agency. 18F operates on a cost-recoverable model where an agency is paying for help or services. There are other, smaller differences too. For example, it's typically easier to work remotely for 18F than for USDS. From a distance, the organizations both look like "tech in government," but I think they operate better separately. I have enormous respect for the folks in 18F, and the two orgs have collaborated on things like the US Web Design Standards: https://standards.usa.gov/ https://standards.usa.gov/
  - Keverw 10y ago
    Thanks for the explanation. I was just curious since I know I have seen posts about 18F here on HN before which sounded like very similar work. This is the first time I heard of USDS and as an outsider to government tech, they both looked the same to me. But that makes totally sense to me now, sounds like with the different funding and offices they work on slightly different projects and problems then but still tech. Plus I remember at one point Obama was talking about duplicate agencies/programs and consolidating them. Then Trump talks about "cutting the fat", but I do see how being separate in this case actually seems like it helps.
    - wslack 10y ago
      * I work at 18F I think the press articles that sometimes lump it all together can be frustrating at times and I like Matt's descriptions above. Another important difference: when USDS attends a meeting it's the "White House" in the room, whereas 18F sitting in GSA (which does other things like support government real estate) gives us a different context. We both, though, benefit immensely from strong civil servants that partner with us. There's a narrative out there that "silicon valley" people have come to DC to "rescue" all of the government, when many people in both orgs have government experience (or come from the non-profit sector). Our work is impossible without partners throughout government who know a policy space and are ready to benefit from different tools and processes, and I wish those folks (or even just the tools and processes such as http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-681 http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-681) got more attention than the "hero narrative."
verst 10y ago
Congrats Matt. It was a pleasure to meet you at the USDS ice cream social last fall. Today was my last day at 18F. I'm returning to private sector, for now. I'm proud of what we accomplished in building cloud.gov. I think 2017 will be a big year for the platform.
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  I'm a happy user of cloud.gov, so thank you for your work!
- codelitt 10y ago
  Wow! Just took a look at the pricing page[^1]. This seems like a very expensive service. What makes it cost so much in comparison to what we see in the private sector? There's some info here[^2], but it's pretty general. [1]: https://cloud.gov/overview/pricing/rates/ https://cloud.gov/overview/pricing/rates/ [2]: https://cloud.gov/overview/pricing/pricing-model/ https://cloud.gov/overview/pricing/pricing-model/
  - primitivesuave 10y ago
    Cloud.gov services can only be purchased by federal agencies. The pricing ensures that it is a cost-recoverable service. I for one am happy to see my tax dollars moved out of other federal agencies and into USDS.
  - wslack 10y ago
    The TL;DR answer is that compliance in the government is expensive (for example, the gov't can require companies to maintain amended terms of service[1]). There are many vendors who choose not to work with government for that reason and its one reason the government ends up paying more for services. Edit to add this link to a place in a video explaining more about compliance.[2] [1]: https://www.digitalgov.gov/resources/negotiated-terms-of-service-agreements/ https://www.digitalgov.gov/resources/negotiated-terms-of-ser... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwOG3BrdODo&t=1m30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwOG3BrdODo&t=1m30s
- throwaway942024 10y ago
iblaine 10y ago
> Working for the government doesn’t pay as well as a big company in Silicon Valley. We don’t get any free lunches. Many days are incredibly frustrating. All I can tell you is that the work is deeply important and inspiring, and you have a chance to work on things that genuinely make peoples’ lives better. Pretty easy thing to say when you already have millions in your bank account.
- tobltobs 10y ago
  Without millions in in your bank account you wont be starving working for the USDS either.
  - ganley 10y ago
    Starving, no. But making a lot less than you could make elsewhere.
- bdcravens 10y ago
  I don't think Matt was speaking to his personal decision alone, as much as making a transparent recruiting pitch.
- dkhenry 10y ago
  As someone who doesn't have millions in his bank account, I can tell you that everything Matt is saying applies to us poor folk too.
general_ai 10y ago
Great to see there are actual adults ready to take a pay cut and serve the country in spite of maybe not getting the president they like. Far too many people have fallen victim to feigned outrage and pearl clutching, and excluded themselves from the conversation completely. That's not how you effect change, folks. _This_ is how you do it. You go out there and put in the hard work.
- eragoins 10y ago
  Just wondering if you would say the same of people protesting in Hong Kong, Russia, or Saudi Arabia. Should they also "act like adults" and "go out there and put in the hard work?" Depending on a person's life experiences, it causes them to draw the line at different places. So I don't think it's fair to say those people display "feigned outrage and pearl clutching," while _this_ specific way is the adult way.
  - general_ai 10y ago
    Speaking of Russia (which is the only one of those countries/localities that I can speak for, since I grew up there), I will say that Putin is inarguably the best thing that happened to Russia in the past 100 years.
    - khuey 10y ago
      Not very many good things have happened to Russia in the last 100 years.
      - general_ai 10y ago
        That's exactly right. And if someone is going to protest Putin, may I suggest that they peruse the following graph: https://www.google.com/search?q=russia+per+capita+gdp+ppp&oq=russia+per+capita+&aqs=chrome.4.0j69i57j0l4.6467j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=russia+per+capita+gdp+ppp&oq.... That's Putin.
eikenberry 10y ago
Why do they not have a remote work option?
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  Some of the USDS agency teams do have a remote work option. For example, the Defense Digital Service operates out of the Pentagon, but they have remote folks in Boston, New York, and Colorado.
  - eikenberry 10y ago
    Good to know. I was just going on their hiring page (linked to at end of blog) which said you'd have to relocate to DC.
    - dkhenry 10y ago
      If your considering applying ( which you should be ) I would implore you to relocate, while its a major sacrifice you will be more effective in person that you could ever be remotely
- spoon16 10y ago
  I live outside of Seattle. But nearly all of the work I do with USDS requires me to be physically present. So I travel a lot (4/5 days a week). You aren't going to find a badly broken technology project in the Federal Government that is able to leverage remote people effectively.
  - eikenberry 10y ago
    I'm a developer and devops guy. If I have to be physically present for anything, something is very wrong.
    - spoon16 10y ago
      I agree with you. Most of our work is on projects where something is very wrong.
akytt 10y ago
Fellow public servant and former Skyper here. I can fully see where you are coming from. Keep up the good work, a lots of folks are looking up to what the USDS is doing!
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  Thanks for the good wishes!
codeonfire 10y ago
Trump is going to shut this down unfortunately. I don't think people have really come to terms with what is going to change. If there is anything digital that needs done, some republican backed defense contractor is going to do it for 100x the price.
- thisnotmyacc 10y ago
  This sort of scare mongering is just plain weird.
  - prodtorok 10y ago
    how familiar are you with the contracting world?
  - dkhenry 10y ago
    I don't think its weird, I think its what has become normal. People operate on speculation and fear more then facts.
  - codeonfire 10y ago
    This isn't scare mongering. Just my opinion about how things are going to go from someone who lived through Reagan and both Bushes. The main theme of right wing parties is to reduce government, but their stated goal of reducing taxes always turns out to be a crock of shit. Their motivation is to get tax dollars (and borrowed dollars) flowing to right wing organizations. Remember faith based initiatives? They had tax money flowing to churches.
lazyasciiart 10y ago
https://www.usds.gov/join#who https://www.usds.gov/join#who says they are only accepting US citizens. However https://www.usds.gov/join#application https://www.usds.gov/join#application only asks if you are authorized to work in the US, and says 'For some positions US citizenship is required'. So are there any positions that do not require US citizenship, or should that application form just ask if you are a citizen?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- csharpminor 10y ago
  I can't answer on their behalf, but I do know that the security clearance process generally prohibits non-citizens. You can get a Limited Access Authorization (LAA) in some cases. Given that USDS frequently works on sensitive infrastructure, I think there's a strong chance that citizenship is a requirement.
- jilljennV 10y ago
  If you're not a US citizen, you can build an equivalent of the USDS in the country to which you belong ;) If you are not a citizen of any country though…
- tvanantwerp 10y ago
  Most DC Federal jobs like the ones at USDS require citizenship. I know because I live in DC and my wife is not a citizen, drastically limiting her options.
throwaway9865 10y ago
Hi Looking at the salary and that I'm in Baltimore making $135k as Sr. UI/UXer (designing/coding sites apps for Govt agencies) I'm not sure the salary range of up to $163k would be worth it. That's probably not for UI/UXers or is it? My rent here in Baltimore with utilities is 2k ... if I moved to D.C. A lot of the additional salary would be absorbed by the doubling or tripling my cost of rent. Thus I wonder why remote positions and or a mix of remote and on site one day a week is not being offered?
- dkhenry 10y ago
  I understand your feeling, and even if you could get to the 163k pay rate (which you might not) you would be looking at a different lifestyle. Its important to go into the process knowing that a Job at the USDS isn't going to make the most financial sense, many people have turned down packages many multiples of 163k for the opportunity to make a difference on a scale that people would only dream about. If your not excited about the impact I think you would wash out after only a few weeks.
  - shostack 10y ago
    Does that fact tend to "filter out" those who are not young and unencumbered by financial obligations like mortgages and families or those who are well off?
    - dkhenry 10y ago
      I have a wife, three young children, and a mortgage, and it didn't filter me out. The money isn't the biggest challenge, it is tough work and it takes a long time to reach the pay off. The daily grind up against the machine that is government will wear you down faster then anything else.
    - ganley 10y ago
      Well, it definitely filtered me out. And BTW, $163K is for a step 10. New government employees almost always start as a step 1.
- 10y ago
therealmarv 10y ago
Very inspiring to learn about US Digital Service. I wished somehow Germany would have something similar.
- hugs 10y ago
  USDS was modeled after a similar initiative in the UK (the Government Digital Service). Maybe Germany could be next? Or maybe an EU-wide digital service?
forrestthewoods 10y ago
Hey Matt - will you build a firearm owners registry if a future President or Congress passes it?
edblarney 10y ago
I applaud your commitment to civic duty. I wish more of the big tech players would encourage leaves of absence to partake in these important tasks.
- redtapemachete 10y ago
  Microsoft has a special civic leave program for this work, and work like it!
  - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
    That's pretty cool. I would love to see Google make this option easier for people who want to help with improving civic tech at the local, state, or federal level.
TheAceOfHearts 10y ago
One of the best things to come out USDS / 18F is their design guidelines [0]. It's very comfortable to read, and completely accessible! I think my only complaint is that the components are all a bit gigantic. But it's understandable, since they have to cater to so many people. Considering the government and tech got me wondering: what software do our leaders regularly use? What measures are taken to ensure it's as safe? How much of this information is readily available? Hopefully this won't land me in an FBI watch-list :). [0] https://standards.usa.gov/ https://standards.usa.gov/
pryelluw 10y ago
What's the interview process like? What technologies are common?
- redtapemachete 10y ago
  Interview process = Apply on usds.gov -> Your resume is scored -> Technical interview (akin to Goog/twitter/amazon) -> EQ interview (can you handle the super weird work and environment?) -> technical interview (similar to first to follow up on any missing info) -> Interview feedback is reviewed by hiring panel to make sure folks are minimally qualified -> Agency team leads compete to make offers to qualified candidates -> candidates accept one of the offer(s). You can be dropped at any step and not proceed. Everyone on staff hates turning people down, because people only apply if they care deeply about helping others. We are forever grateful for folks who throw their hat in the ring. Technologies run from COBOL (not kidding) to node. At 18F you will get to work exclusively in a modern stack, at USDS we're looking for people who are willing and able to scrub in to fix X, no matter what tech is in the way. The work is always oriented around solving a problem for humans, regardless of the stack. If the greatest python dev ever applied, but couldn't creatively solve problems for a system that was built in powerbuilder 5.0 (lol/sob), we couldn't use her. *USDS employee
  - pryelluw 10y ago
    Thanks for the detailed response.
tvanantwerp 10y ago
Since the election, has there been any dropoff in people staying or applying to join USDS? I ado agree that now is probably a good time to stick with things--but I'm sure others view it differently. I'm curious if there are enough such people to see a difference in staffing. Edit: Also, as a programmer and DC person, I love the work USDS does and I hope you guys keep working indefinitely.
saycheese 10y ago
>> "I'm the head of the webspam team at Google." Just a heads up that the above is on your HN profile: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Matt_Cutts https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Matt_Cutts
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  I updated my profile--thanks! It's a bit daunting to think about all the places where I'll need to update my profile/bio. :)
coleca 10y ago
If you haven't seen Mikey Dickerson's presentation at last fall's Velocity Conference it's worth a quick watch: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LGSAyU2RZDo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LGSAyU2RZDo Watching that video will make you understand why someone like Matt would feel the call to service he clearly does. USDS is a true example of everything that is right about civil service and has nothing to do with partisan politics despite being part of the Whitehouse.
topbagsvk 10y ago
For all we know, some might have participated, through a government or a third-party contract that did not specify exact goals of the project. http://www.bagsforsaled.com/designer-handbags.html http://www.bagsforsaled.com/designer-handbags.html
akmiller 10y ago
Matt, are you not concerned that the USDS could be removed with the transitioning of President Trump. If I'm not mistaken it's part of the executive office so not only could it be undone, but it could be undone swiftly with the stroke of a pen. Seems like a risky move at this time!
- devnull42 10y ago
  I was recruited and almost joined up with them but didn't for this exact reason. Too much uncertainty and potential for it to be cut right after I joined.
- edraferi 10y ago
  It will be very interesting to see how Trump reacts to USDS and similar efforts that connect the Federal government with technologists and scientists. The Republicans seem to prefer that government function poorly (e.g. "starve the beast") but they DO like the private sector. So when you want to use private sector best practices to make the government work better, does the administration like it or hate it?
mi100hael 10y ago
Anyone know who the guy in the video giving the speech with his shirt buttoned all the way up is? Edit: wow I don't recognize Jobs with a beard.
- grepthisab 10y ago
  Steve Jobs.
  - saycheese 10y ago
    >> Steve Jobs: "When you grow up you, tend to get told that the world is the way it is and your life is just to live your life inside the world, try not to bash into the walls too much, try to have a nice family, have fun, save a little money. That’s a very limited life. Life can be much broader, once you discover one simple fact, and that is that everything around you that you call life was made up by people that were no smarter than you. And you can change it, you can influence it, you can build your own things that other people can use. And the minute that you understand that you can poke life and actually something will, you know if you push in, something will pop out the other side, that you can change it, you can mold it. That’s maybe the most important thing. It’s to shake off this erroneous notion that life is there and you’re just gonna live in it, versus embrace it, change it, improve it, make your mark upon it. I think that’s very important and however you learn that, once you learn it, you’ll want to change life and make it better, cause it’s kind of messed up, in a lot of ways. Once you learn that, you’ll never be the same again.” Unedited version: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ydp6bR5HXw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ydp6bR5HXw
jconley 10y ago
Just a warning for everyone from California, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, etc. They do require you to certify for the background screening that you have not done any federally illegal drugs in the last 12 months, and possibly do drug tests. Might not want to spend too much time on it if that applies to you. https://www.usds.gov/join#who https://www.usds.gov/join#who
- dejawu 10y ago
  This is such a shame. I remember the NSA and FBI having trouble finding techies because basically everyone they interviewed had smoked weed sometime in the last five years.
  - avar 10y ago
    Which, particularly for those agencies, comes about due to the most absurd of reasons: 1. We'd treat drug using employees really seriously 2. Therefore you must not do drugs 3. Because we're so serious about this this becomes a major blackmailing vector. 4. So we need to make really sure you're a drug user. It's an entirely manufactured problem that could be solved overnight by them just saying "hey, don't show up high on the job, but what you do in your own time is your own business, and we won't pro-actively investigate it anymore than any other citizen".
    - walshemj 10y ago
      and its ironic that all the major traitors Ames, Cambridge 5 etc where doing it for monetary reasons or for Ideological. Don't seem to recall being blackmailed for drugs coming into it
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  You would need to take a drug test to work for the USDS. To the best of my knowledge, you don't have to take a drug test to apply to 18F, although I believe that you may be asked the question as part of the application process for 18F.
usds_app_throw 10y ago
As a new grad, the USDS was my top choice but I was constantly stonewalled by recruiters saying that I wasn't experienced enough. For the USDS engineers on the thread--does the work really require 5+ years of work experience? Is there really no place for a passionate and moderately-experienced junior engineer in the organization? I would quit my job in a heartbeat if I got an offer.
- mzs 10y ago
  Don't use recruiters for gov jobs, just go to the website and apply.
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  It does help to have a few scars, in that many of the problems also have organizational aspects to them. So it's not just the ability to code; it also helps to have seen a lot of dysfunction within companies, bureaucracies, etc.
- dnesting 10y ago
  The projects in which we are most successful are those where we have been able to quickly bring a lot of relevant experience to the table, not just knowledge and skill.
usds_app_throw 10y ago
As a new grad, the USDS was my top choice but I was constantly stonewalled by recruiters saying that I wasn't experienced enough. For the USDS engineers on the thread--does the work really require 5+ years of work experience? Is there really no place for a passionate and moderately-experienced junior engineer in the organization? I would quit my job in a heartbeat if I got an offer.
bogomipz 10y ago
Can explain briefly how 18F relates to USDS? I guess I thought that 18F was the group behind healthcare.gov in the US and clearly I have that wrong. Thanks.
- wslack 10y ago
  Check this part of the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13433319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13433319 Neither 18F or USDS existed when healthcare.gov launched.
saycheese 10y ago
Now that you are officially no longer with Google, is there anything that you have put off talking about that you now feel is the right time to do so?
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  Google Reader, man. Google Reader.
  - saycheese 10y ago
    Agree, RIP RSS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13440672 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13440672
jgalt212 10y ago
I said this in an earlier thread, but also applies to Matt's (and other Googlers) work for the USG. AT&T, through Bell Labs, tried to be indispensable to the US Govt throughout the Cold War so that it would allow its monopoly to continue to exist. Google is following the same game plan. The problem with this game plan is that by Google seeming too cozy with USG it makes it harder for it to operate in foreign markets. AT&T did not have this problem as foreign markets during the Cold War were much smaller and more closed.
pm24601 10y ago
Matt - Are you going to resist the Trump administration OR are you going to enable it? Sounds like you think you can some how make bad less bad.
pbarnes_1 10y ago
Not that I'd work for a fascist collaborator but... How is the USDS getting around the hiring freeze?

330 points by Matt_Cutts 10y ago

Matt_Cutts 10y ago

Let me know if folks have any questions, but I left Google on Dec. 31, 2016.

wjossey 10y ago
Best of luck Matt- I miss hearing you on the TWiT network, but I'm truly proud and inspired by the work you're doing. Continue to lead, and others will follow.
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  I'd love to get back to talk to Leo Laporte at some point--maybe when things quiet down a bit.
ipsin 10y ago
Since you pitch the USDS to tech people, please let us know: how free do you feel to speak your mind on political matters, or to effect those positive outcomes? Personally I've judged the quality of incoming political appointees, and I would chafe at working under leadership I could not respect. In my worst imagination, I would be holding down a desk until it could be filled by the employees of well-connected contractors. You describe it as "incredibly frustrating" now. How do you think you can keep that work "deeply important and inspiring"?
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  First I'll add the disclaimer that this is my personal opinion. I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself. I think the mission of the US Digital Service is fundamentally non-partisan: we want to make government work better for the American people. When a veteran can apply for health benefits online, they have a better experience. But it also saves the money from them driving to see someone in person. There's so much work like that to do that everyone agrees will make the government better, more responsive, and more efficient. I also think the USDS has built up some reputation and trust because of the good work that it's been able to do so far. I'm heartened when folks like Kevin McCarthy (majority leader in the House of Representatives) tweet things like this: https://twitter.com/gopleader/status/796823547343736837 https://twitter.com/gopleader/status/796823547343736837 At Google, I didn't always agree with what the CEO decided to do, like shutting down Google Reader. Sigh. But there was a ton of important work to do, and concentrating on the common ground made it possible to do really good things.
  - easychewie 10y ago
    > First I'll add the disclaimer that this is my personal opinion. I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself. And there it is. One of many reasons I'll never work for the government again. The government is so PC-sensitive that dude can't even post on HN without a mildly disguised form of legalese. When I was in the Air Force, everything I said had to be prefaced with The views expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Air force, Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government. One might think this is a minor complaint but after years of death by 1,000 cuts, you just can't take it anymore.
    - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
      To be fair, I often said that online when I was working for Google as well.
      - johnward 10y ago
        This is common amongst all megacorps. They can use anything you say on social media against you if it makes them look bad. The disclaimer doesn't really matter but I still put one in my profile. Basically, it's not just the government that goes too far into private life.
    - spoon16 10y ago
      It is very common on HN to put a disclaimer like this on posts. I do not think this has anything to do with Matt working for the government.
    - quanticle 10y ago
      Except that's also policy for most large corporations, as well. If you're working at some place like Microsoft or Google, it's required policy that you preface anything you say about Microsoft or Google with a statement that these statements are your personal opinions only and do not reflect the policy of the company.
    - eddieroger 10y ago
walrus01 10y ago
What are your thoughts on the theft of the entire contents of everyone's SF-86 from the OPM? I've had a security clearance in the past and all of my personal info was part of the data breach[1]. Incidents like this are one of the reasons why I would not work for the federal government again, except as contractor at much higher than standard federal scale pay rate. It's just not worth it in the personal hassle to go through the intrusive background check/clearance process. 1: https://www.google.com/search?q=SF-86+breach+opm&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b https://www.google.com/search?q=SF-86+breach+opm&ie=utf-8&oe... Second question: What level of clearance do your direct reports require? Secret? TS?
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  Yup, my personal data was stolen in the OPM breach too, because I interned for the government when I was in college. But the USDS helped in the aftermath of the OPM breach. In fact, one of my first USDS projects after joining was a collaboration with 18F and the Dept. of Defense on a better version of the SF-86 and a more secure background investigation system. Without getting into weeds too much, there's lots of good work happening to make it easy to join the federal government or enlist in the military. There is a background check process as part of joining USDS, but we keep looking at ways to make signing up easier, e.g. trying to make the process faster.
  - jbapple 10y ago
    > Without getting into weeds too much, there's lots of good work happening to make it easy to join the federal government or enlist in the military. Why is it good to make it easy to enlist in the military?
    - danso 10y ago
      We have a volunteer corps. For a lot of people, the military is one of the best job options as it also offers paid education via the G.I. Bill.
      - 10y ago
toomuchtodo 10y ago
No questions, just a compliment. After going through the USDS interview process and declining an offer, I have nothing but appreciation for those who serve there knowing what's involved to be selected, onboarded, and what the day to day looks like. Best of luck as your journey there continues.
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  I'll pass that feedback on--thank you!
  - nowarninglabel 10y ago
    I'll tag on here to compliment the usds.gov/join site. Great job at outlining everything upfront to make it easy for people to figure out if it's right for them. Might lift some inspiration from it. And thank you for serving!
- ganley 10y ago
  Totally agree. I'm inspired by what they do, but working there would involve a big pay cut and a punishing commute, so (with some sadness) nope.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  I don't want to be too negative here, but I had the opposite experience. I didn't like the little bit of the process I actually got to experience, did not get a good feeling from either the job description or the one interview I had what the USDS is actually looking for, and found the canned rejection email to be a bit condescending.
  - Matt_Cutts 10y ago
    Just wanted to say sorry that you had a bad experience. Would you mind if I asked when you applied and went through the process? I'm curious whether your experience was a recent bad one.
    - 10y ago
HappyTypist 10y ago
I'm sure working for the US Digital Service is incredibly rewarding and much more so than perks like free lunches, but do you think offering free lunches will help reduce a common perception of 'bureaucracy' with government jobs?
the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
I'm curious how you see the future of the USDS with the new president.
skybrian 10y ago
You might want to update your Hacker News profile :-)
jdmath 10y ago
Not a question, I wanted to say that I am impressed with vets.gov and the pace of improvement. Thank you and your team for the work that you do! I can see it getting way better than ebenefits. Hoping it will allow vets more access to their information such as C-File and medical records without a FOIA request.
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  I love vets.gov. Starting with benefits was great, but secure messaging with doctors, filling prescriptions--there's lots of great stuff going on there. While I've got you, are there 2-3 things that you would most like to see on vets.gov in the future?

brandonb 10y ago

Just wanted to say: thank you for your service!

Matt_Cutts 10y ago
Thanks, Brandon. And thank you for your service on healthcare.gov!

new_hackers 10y ago

What is the mood like with Trump coming into office? Is USDS going to remain alive and well?

new_hackers 10y ago
Also same question for code.gov
thogenhaven 10y ago
There is a good article about it here: https://backchannel.com/the-final-days-of-obamas-tech-surge-864b9bf60d34#.pip8ad4cd https://backchannel.com/the-final-days-of-obamas-tech-surge-... "I also spoke to a number of former team members. Publicly, almost all of them expressed optimism that the work would continue: The transition was proceeding cordially, the efforts to reform government IT were bipartisan, and Congress would back their efforts, which had already saved money for taxpayers and delivered services for citizens. But lurking behind every statement was an existential dread that Donald Trump would either pull the plug on one of the great achievements of the last eight years, or worse — he might order the best and brightest to work on projects that violated their moral codes. If those fears were confirmed, it would mean the end of one of the most inspiring developments in government in years — and a backwards step for a bureaucracy that had for too long ignored the nation’s most powerful tools."
- thisnotmyacc 10y ago
  > But lurking behind every statement was an existential dread That sums up the mood in the media: existential dread.Not real. Not tangible. Not verifiable. Existential. I doubt the Donald is going to mess with making the awful process of dealing with government easier. Existential is non-tangible for a reason I guess.
  - throwaway942024 10y ago
    That's not what "existential dread" means.
- 10y ago

1888franklin 10y ago

Howdy Matt - will you build a Muslim registry if Trump orders it or Congress passes it?

enraged_camel 10y ago
Not sure why this was downvoted. It's a very valid question considering the times we live in.
- hnbro 10y ago
  if not this person, someone else will. so it just boils down to asking what his personal political views are.
  - 1888franklin 10y ago
    You state this as simple fact, but is it so? Delivering enterprise software is very hard. Matt suggests that USDS was necessary to rescue healthcare.gov, for example. The labor pool of skilled coders is smaller vs. demand than for many other professions. If the top 500 coders declined to participate in a project that savagely violates human rights - and encouraged this as a norm in our communities - isn't it plausible that doing so could either prevent, derail, or meaningfully weaken such a project? I concede that we cannot prevent some software from being created. But there is a great qualitative difference between any software and effective software. And if there isn't, and our creativity/labor doesn't matter in creating such a difference, then what is all this talk on HN about? besides... "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."
    - prostoalex 10y ago
      > If the top 500 coders declined to participate in a project that savagely violates human rights - and encouraged this as a norm in our communities - isn't it plausible that doing so could either prevent, derail, or meaningfully weaken such a project? Not sure what the top 500 vote totals were on this, but when Snowden's documents revealed existence of a massive domestic surveillance program that included large amounts of data collection, parsing and analysis, most people were surprised at the breadth, depth and sheer amount of data. Worth noting that it was developed without any significant leaks either, which spells doubt on the idea that top 500 were even invited to express their stance on the subject, which nevertheless did not force the project into derailment. For all we know, some might have participated, through a government or a third-party contract that did not specify exact goals of the project and provided limited view into the overarching theme. One thing that's hard to judge from the outside is the quality and efficiency of that code. It could be very bad indeed.

Keverw 10y ago

I wonder how the USDS is different than the 18F? Seems like they both are doing the same thing, why not just merge them?

Matt_Cutts 10y ago
USDS and 18F serve in pretty different roles. USDS often comes in when there's a crisis or a high presidential priority, because the organization sits in the office of the President. 18F is located in the General Services Administration and is especially strong when looking at the medium- to long-term goals of an organization. I'd also say that 18F thinks more about culture change than many parts of the USDS. They also have different funding mechanisms that lead to different operating models. USDS funding comes out of a budget called ITOR and we can represent a source of "free" engineers for an agency. 18F operates on a cost-recoverable model where an agency is paying for help or services. There are other, smaller differences too. For example, it's typically easier to work remotely for 18F than for USDS. From a distance, the organizations both look like "tech in government," but I think they operate better separately. I have enormous respect for the folks in 18F, and the two orgs have collaborated on things like the US Web Design Standards: https://standards.usa.gov/ https://standards.usa.gov/
- Keverw 10y ago
  Thanks for the explanation. I was just curious since I know I have seen posts about 18F here on HN before which sounded like very similar work. This is the first time I heard of USDS and as an outsider to government tech, they both looked the same to me. But that makes totally sense to me now, sounds like with the different funding and offices they work on slightly different projects and problems then but still tech. Plus I remember at one point Obama was talking about duplicate agencies/programs and consolidating them. Then Trump talks about "cutting the fat", but I do see how being separate in this case actually seems like it helps.
  - wslack 10y ago
    * I work at 18F I think the press articles that sometimes lump it all together can be frustrating at times and I like Matt's descriptions above. Another important difference: when USDS attends a meeting it's the "White House" in the room, whereas 18F sitting in GSA (which does other things like support government real estate) gives us a different context. We both, though, benefit immensely from strong civil servants that partner with us. There's a narrative out there that "silicon valley" people have come to DC to "rescue" all of the government, when many people in both orgs have government experience (or come from the non-profit sector). Our work is impossible without partners throughout government who know a policy space and are ready to benefit from different tools and processes, and I wish those folks (or even just the tools and processes such as http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-681 http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-681) got more attention than the "hero narrative."

verst 10y ago

Congrats Matt. It was a pleasure to meet you at the USDS ice cream social last fall. Today was my last day at 18F. I'm returning to private sector, for now. I'm proud of what we accomplished in building cloud.gov. I think 2017 will be a big year for the platform.

Matt_Cutts 10y ago
I'm a happy user of cloud.gov, so thank you for your work!
codelitt 10y ago
Wow! Just took a look at the pricing page[^1]. This seems like a very expensive service. What makes it cost so much in comparison to what we see in the private sector? There's some info here[^2], but it's pretty general. [1]: https://cloud.gov/overview/pricing/rates/ https://cloud.gov/overview/pricing/rates/ [2]: https://cloud.gov/overview/pricing/pricing-model/ https://cloud.gov/overview/pricing/pricing-model/
- primitivesuave 10y ago
  Cloud.gov services can only be purchased by federal agencies. The pricing ensures that it is a cost-recoverable service. I for one am happy to see my tax dollars moved out of other federal agencies and into USDS.
- wslack 10y ago
  The TL;DR answer is that compliance in the government is expensive (for example, the gov't can require companies to maintain amended terms of service[1]). There are many vendors who choose not to work with government for that reason and its one reason the government ends up paying more for services. Edit to add this link to a place in a video explaining more about compliance.[2] [1]: https://www.digitalgov.gov/resources/negotiated-terms-of-service-agreements/ https://www.digitalgov.gov/resources/negotiated-terms-of-ser... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwOG3BrdODo&t=1m30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwOG3BrdODo&t=1m30s
throwaway942024 10y ago

iblaine 10y ago

> Working for the government doesn’t pay as well as a big company in Silicon Valley. We don’t get any free lunches. Many days are incredibly frustrating. All I can tell you is that the work is deeply important and inspiring, and you have a chance to work on things that genuinely make peoples’ lives better. Pretty easy thing to say when you already have millions in your bank account.

tobltobs 10y ago
Without millions in in your bank account you wont be starving working for the USDS either.
- ganley 10y ago
  Starving, no. But making a lot less than you could make elsewhere.
bdcravens 10y ago
I don't think Matt was speaking to his personal decision alone, as much as making a transparent recruiting pitch.
dkhenry 10y ago
As someone who doesn't have millions in his bank account, I can tell you that everything Matt is saying applies to us poor folk too.

general_ai 10y ago

Great to see there are actual adults ready to take a pay cut and serve the country in spite of maybe not getting the president they like. Far too many people have fallen victim to feigned outrage and pearl clutching, and excluded themselves from the conversation completely. That's not how you effect change, folks. _This_ is how you do it. You go out there and put in the hard work.

eragoins 10y ago
Just wondering if you would say the same of people protesting in Hong Kong, Russia, or Saudi Arabia. Should they also "act like adults" and "go out there and put in the hard work?" Depending on a person's life experiences, it causes them to draw the line at different places. So I don't think it's fair to say those people display "feigned outrage and pearl clutching," while _this_ specific way is the adult way.
- general_ai 10y ago
  Speaking of Russia (which is the only one of those countries/localities that I can speak for, since I grew up there), I will say that Putin is inarguably the best thing that happened to Russia in the past 100 years.
  - khuey 10y ago
    Not very many good things have happened to Russia in the last 100 years.
    - general_ai 10y ago
      That's exactly right. And if someone is going to protest Putin, may I suggest that they peruse the following graph: https://www.google.com/search?q=russia+per+capita+gdp+ppp&oq=russia+per+capita+&aqs=chrome.4.0j69i57j0l4.6467j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=russia+per+capita+gdp+ppp&oq.... That's Putin.

eikenberry 10y ago

Why do they not have a remote work option?

Matt_Cutts 10y ago
Some of the USDS agency teams do have a remote work option. For example, the Defense Digital Service operates out of the Pentagon, but they have remote folks in Boston, New York, and Colorado.
- eikenberry 10y ago
  Good to know. I was just going on their hiring page (linked to at end of blog) which said you'd have to relocate to DC.
  - dkhenry 10y ago
    If your considering applying ( which you should be ) I would implore you to relocate, while its a major sacrifice you will be more effective in person that you could ever be remotely
spoon16 10y ago
I live outside of Seattle. But nearly all of the work I do with USDS requires me to be physically present. So I travel a lot (4/5 days a week). You aren't going to find a badly broken technology project in the Federal Government that is able to leverage remote people effectively.
- eikenberry 10y ago
  I'm a developer and devops guy. If I have to be physically present for anything, something is very wrong.
  - spoon16 10y ago
    I agree with you. Most of our work is on projects where something is very wrong.

akytt 10y ago

Fellow public servant and former Skyper here. I can fully see where you are coming from. Keep up the good work, a lots of folks are looking up to what the USDS is doing!

Matt_Cutts 10y ago
Thanks for the good wishes!

codeonfire 10y ago

Trump is going to shut this down unfortunately. I don't think people have really come to terms with what is going to change. If there is anything digital that needs done, some republican backed defense contractor is going to do it for 100x the price.

thisnotmyacc 10y ago
This sort of scare mongering is just plain weird.
- prodtorok 10y ago
  how familiar are you with the contracting world?
- dkhenry 10y ago
  I don't think its weird, I think its what has become normal. People operate on speculation and fear more then facts.
- codeonfire 10y ago
  This isn't scare mongering. Just my opinion about how things are going to go from someone who lived through Reagan and both Bushes. The main theme of right wing parties is to reduce government, but their stated goal of reducing taxes always turns out to be a crock of shit. Their motivation is to get tax dollars (and borrowed dollars) flowing to right wing organizations. Remember faith based initiatives? They had tax money flowing to churches.

lazyasciiart 10y ago

https://www.usds.gov/join#who https://www.usds.gov/join#who says they are only accepting US citizens. However https://www.usds.gov/join#application https://www.usds.gov/join#application only asks if you are authorized to work in the US, and says 'For some positions US citizenship is required'. So are there any positions that do not require US citizenship, or should that application form just ask if you are a citizen?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
csharpminor 10y ago
I can't answer on their behalf, but I do know that the security clearance process generally prohibits non-citizens. You can get a Limited Access Authorization (LAA) in some cases. Given that USDS frequently works on sensitive infrastructure, I think there's a strong chance that citizenship is a requirement.
jilljennV 10y ago
If you're not a US citizen, you can build an equivalent of the USDS in the country to which you belong ;) If you are not a citizen of any country though…
tvanantwerp 10y ago
Most DC Federal jobs like the ones at USDS require citizenship. I know because I live in DC and my wife is not a citizen, drastically limiting her options.

throwaway9865 10y ago

Hi Looking at the salary and that I'm in Baltimore making $135k as Sr. UI/UXer (designing/coding sites apps for Govt agencies) I'm not sure the salary range of up to $163k would be worth it. That's probably not for UI/UXers or is it? My rent here in Baltimore with utilities is 2k ... if I moved to D.C. A lot of the additional salary would be absorbed by the doubling or tripling my cost of rent. Thus I wonder why remote positions and or a mix of remote and on site one day a week is not being offered?

dkhenry 10y ago
I understand your feeling, and even if you could get to the 163k pay rate (which you might not) you would be looking at a different lifestyle. Its important to go into the process knowing that a Job at the USDS isn't going to make the most financial sense, many people have turned down packages many multiples of 163k for the opportunity to make a difference on a scale that people would only dream about. If your not excited about the impact I think you would wash out after only a few weeks.
- shostack 10y ago
  Does that fact tend to "filter out" those who are not young and unencumbered by financial obligations like mortgages and families or those who are well off?
  - dkhenry 10y ago
    I have a wife, three young children, and a mortgage, and it didn't filter me out. The money isn't the biggest challenge, it is tough work and it takes a long time to reach the pay off. The daily grind up against the machine that is government will wear you down faster then anything else.
  - ganley 10y ago
    Well, it definitely filtered me out. And BTW, $163K is for a step 10. New government employees almost always start as a step 1.
10y ago

therealmarv 10y ago

Very inspiring to learn about US Digital Service. I wished somehow Germany would have something similar.

hugs 10y ago
USDS was modeled after a similar initiative in the UK (the Government Digital Service). Maybe Germany could be next? Or maybe an EU-wide digital service?

forrestthewoods 10y ago

Hey Matt - will you build a firearm owners registry if a future President or Congress passes it?

edblarney 10y ago

I applaud your commitment to civic duty. I wish more of the big tech players would encourage leaves of absence to partake in these important tasks.

redtapemachete 10y ago
Microsoft has a special civic leave program for this work, and work like it!
- Matt_Cutts 10y ago
  That's pretty cool. I would love to see Google make this option easier for people who want to help with improving civic tech at the local, state, or federal level.

TheAceOfHearts 10y ago

One of the best things to come out USDS / 18F is their design guidelines [0]. It's very comfortable to read, and completely accessible! I think my only complaint is that the components are all a bit gigantic. But it's understandable, since they have to cater to so many people. Considering the government and tech got me wondering: what software do our leaders regularly use? What measures are taken to ensure it's as safe? How much of this information is readily available? Hopefully this won't land me in an FBI watch-list :). [0] https://standards.usa.gov/ https://standards.usa.gov/

pryelluw 10y ago

What's the interview process like? What technologies are common?

redtapemachete 10y ago
Interview process = Apply on usds.gov -> Your resume is scored -> Technical interview (akin to Goog/twitter/amazon) -> EQ interview (can you handle the super weird work and environment?) -> technical interview (similar to first to follow up on any missing info) -> Interview feedback is reviewed by hiring panel to make sure folks are minimally qualified -> Agency team leads compete to make offers to qualified candidates -> candidates accept one of the offer(s). You can be dropped at any step and not proceed. Everyone on staff hates turning people down, because people only apply if they care deeply about helping others. We are forever grateful for folks who throw their hat in the ring. Technologies run from COBOL (not kidding) to node. At 18F you will get to work exclusively in a modern stack, at USDS we're looking for people who are willing and able to scrub in to fix X, no matter what tech is in the way. The work is always oriented around solving a problem for humans, regardless of the stack. If the greatest python dev ever applied, but couldn't creatively solve problems for a system that was built in powerbuilder 5.0 (lol/sob), we couldn't use her. *USDS employee
- pryelluw 10y ago
  Thanks for the detailed response.

tvanantwerp 10y ago

Since the election, has there been any dropoff in people staying or applying to join USDS? I ado agree that now is probably a good time to stick with things--but I'm sure others view it differently. I'm curious if there are enough such people to see a difference in staffing. Edit: Also, as a programmer and DC person, I love the work USDS does and I hope you guys keep working indefinitely.

saycheese 10y ago

>> "I'm the head of the webspam team at Google." Just a heads up that the above is on your HN profile: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Matt_Cutts https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Matt_Cutts

Matt_Cutts 10y ago
I updated my profile--thanks! It's a bit daunting to think about all the places where I'll need to update my profile/bio. :)

coleca 10y ago

If you haven't seen Mikey Dickerson's presentation at last fall's Velocity Conference it's worth a quick watch: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LGSAyU2RZDo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LGSAyU2RZDo Watching that video will make you understand why someone like Matt would feel the call to service he clearly does. USDS is a true example of everything that is right about civil service and has nothing to do with partisan politics despite being part of the Whitehouse.

topbagsvk 10y ago

For all we know, some might have participated, through a government or a third-party contract that did not specify exact goals of the project. http://www.bagsforsaled.com/designer-handbags.html http://www.bagsforsaled.com/designer-handbags.html

akmiller 10y ago

Matt, are you not concerned that the USDS could be removed with the transitioning of President Trump. If I'm not mistaken it's part of the executive office so not only could it be undone, but it could be undone swiftly with the stroke of a pen. Seems like a risky move at this time!

devnull42 10y ago
I was recruited and almost joined up with them but didn't for this exact reason. Too much uncertainty and potential for it to be cut right after I joined.
edraferi 10y ago
It will be very interesting to see how Trump reacts to USDS and similar efforts that connect the Federal government with technologists and scientists. The Republicans seem to prefer that government function poorly (e.g. "starve the beast") but they DO like the private sector. So when you want to use private sector best practices to make the government work better, does the administration like it or hate it?

mi100hael 10y ago

Anyone know who the guy in the video giving the speech with his shirt buttoned all the way up is? Edit: wow I don't recognize Jobs with a beard.

grepthisab 10y ago
Steve Jobs.
- saycheese 10y ago
  >> Steve Jobs: "When you grow up you, tend to get told that the world is the way it is and your life is just to live your life inside the world, try not to bash into the walls too much, try to have a nice family, have fun, save a little money. That’s a very limited life. Life can be much broader, once you discover one simple fact, and that is that everything around you that you call life was made up by people that were no smarter than you. And you can change it, you can influence it, you can build your own things that other people can use. And the minute that you understand that you can poke life and actually something will, you know if you push in, something will pop out the other side, that you can change it, you can mold it. That’s maybe the most important thing. It’s to shake off this erroneous notion that life is there and you’re just gonna live in it, versus embrace it, change it, improve it, make your mark upon it. I think that’s very important and however you learn that, once you learn it, you’ll want to change life and make it better, cause it’s kind of messed up, in a lot of ways. Once you learn that, you’ll never be the same again.” Unedited version: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ydp6bR5HXw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ydp6bR5HXw

jconley 10y ago

Just a warning for everyone from California, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, etc. They do require you to certify for the background screening that you have not done any federally illegal drugs in the last 12 months, and possibly do drug tests. Might not want to spend too much time on it if that applies to you. https://www.usds.gov/join#who https://www.usds.gov/join#who

dejawu 10y ago
This is such a shame. I remember the NSA and FBI having trouble finding techies because basically everyone they interviewed had smoked weed sometime in the last five years.
- avar 10y ago
  Which, particularly for those agencies, comes about due to the most absurd of reasons: 1. We'd treat drug using employees really seriously 2. Therefore you must not do drugs 3. Because we're so serious about this this becomes a major blackmailing vector. 4. So we need to make really sure you're a drug user. It's an entirely manufactured problem that could be solved overnight by them just saying "hey, don't show up high on the job, but what you do in your own time is your own business, and we won't pro-actively investigate it anymore than any other citizen".
  - walshemj 10y ago
    and its ironic that all the major traitors Ames, Cambridge 5 etc where doing it for monetary reasons or for Ideological. Don't seem to recall being blackmailed for drugs coming into it
Matt_Cutts 10y ago
You would need to take a drug test to work for the USDS. To the best of my knowledge, you don't have to take a drug test to apply to 18F, although I believe that you may be asked the question as part of the application process for 18F.

usds_app_throw 10y ago

As a new grad, the USDS was my top choice but I was constantly stonewalled by recruiters saying that I wasn't experienced enough. For the USDS engineers on the thread--does the work really require 5+ years of work experience? Is there really no place for a passionate and moderately-experienced junior engineer in the organization? I would quit my job in a heartbeat if I got an offer.

mzs 10y ago
Don't use recruiters for gov jobs, just go to the website and apply.
Matt_Cutts 10y ago
It does help to have a few scars, in that many of the problems also have organizational aspects to them. So it's not just the ability to code; it also helps to have seen a lot of dysfunction within companies, bureaucracies, etc.
dnesting 10y ago
The projects in which we are most successful are those where we have been able to quickly bring a lot of relevant experience to the table, not just knowledge and skill.

usds_app_throw 10y ago

bogomipz 10y ago

Can explain briefly how 18F relates to USDS? I guess I thought that 18F was the group behind healthcare.gov in the US and clearly I have that wrong. Thanks.

wslack 10y ago
Check this part of the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13433319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13433319 Neither 18F or USDS existed when healthcare.gov launched.

saycheese 10y ago

Now that you are officially no longer with Google, is there anything that you have put off talking about that you now feel is the right time to do so?

Matt_Cutts 10y ago
Google Reader, man. Google Reader.
- saycheese 10y ago
  Agree, RIP RSS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13440672 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13440672

jgalt212 10y ago

I said this in an earlier thread, but also applies to Matt's (and other Googlers) work for the USG. AT&T, through Bell Labs, tried to be indispensable to the US Govt throughout the Cold War so that it would allow its monopoly to continue to exist. Google is following the same game plan. The problem with this game plan is that by Google seeming too cozy with USG it makes it harder for it to operate in foreign markets. AT&T did not have this problem as foreign markets during the Cold War were much smaller and more closed.

pm24601 10y ago

Matt - Are you going to resist the Trump administration OR are you going to enable it? Sounds like you think you can some how make bad less bad.

pbarnes_1 10y ago

Not that I'd work for a fascist collaborator but... How is the USDS getting around the hiring freeze?