4 ms·

Maybe you should do a modicum of research before deciding what is the truth, even in this post fact world. Pretty much everything written by the commenter who y

Maybe you should do a modicum of research before deciding what is the truth, even in this post fact world. Pretty much everything written by the commenter who you replied to was wrong. Punishment for treason is not necessarily death. Snowden leaked the info to trusted news sources who then proceeded to decide what to publish. Snowden was stuck in Russia at the airport en route to somewhere else when everything was getting grounded to find him. Russia took the chance to offer him asylum and as he had no other options he took it.

notpc 10y ago
Leaking to "trusted news sources" is still leaking! Further, my central claim, that Snowden leaked the details of legitimate foreign intelligence activities, is hard fact. Look at my response to 'abandonliberty'. As for him just being stuck in Russia, he claims to have been en route to Ecuador by way of Cuba by way of Russia. All of these, mind you, part of the same anti-American bloc (which Venezuela is also a member of).
- dpark 10y ago
  What do you imagine the alternate escape routes were? Do you think he could hide out in Wales? If you want to escape the clutches of the US, you must go somewhere that won't simply extradite you back to the US. Being in Russia, "stuck" or not isn't relevant to whether Snowden is a traitor. I also don't see how Ecuador is part of an "anti-American bloc" given that they are a democratic state and literally use the US dollar as their official currency.
  - notpc 10y ago
    >I also don't see how Ecuador is part of an "anti-American bloc" given that they are a democratic state and literally use the US dollar as their official currency. You should familiarize yourself more then, with Rafael Correa, Hugo Chavez, and their foreign policy and overseas allies.
    - dpark 10y ago
      I should have left that out. The real point was to address the claim that he "fled to our adversaries". There are realistically no neutral parties that he could have fled to. I'll just concede on the Ecuadorian anti-Americanism. I don't think they're the worst but they are certainly not a dear friend.
      - notpc 10y ago
        The whole thing seems very cowardly. If Snowden truly thought he was acting in the best interests of his country, he could have: 1. Leaked only information about the NSA spying on Americans within the US. 2. Stayed within the US and faced the music. Instead, he damaged America's ability to collect intelligence on foreign countries by revealing our capabilities, and then fled into the arms of our adversaries who have used him as a propaganda piece. Our country exists with the freedom, prosperity, and influence we enjoy today because millions of men were willing to march to their deaths for it. Meanwhile, Snowden can't even face a jury of his peers for an act of civil disobedience? He must not think much of his cause.
        dpark 10y ago
        This is a tired trope. Even if it's true that belief in a cause requires a willingness to die, that doesn't mean that it requires one to actually die. I don't see how Snowden staying around for a life or death sentence would have done anything useful for his cause. It's not "cowardly" to want to avoid life in a federal prison or death by lethal injection. You're just spouting soundbytes. You restated the "fled into the arms of our adversaries" line nearly verbatim but ignore the fact that there's nowhere else to "flee" because any country not willing to extradite him to the US is de facto "anti-American". You say he damaged our ability to collect data but don't have any proof. Was it embarrassing to the nation? Sure. Is there proof that it actually harmed us? I'm not aware of any. You also call him a coward as if level of bravery is relevant to treason as opposed to a pure appeal to emotion over logic.
        notpc 10y ago

notpc 10y ago

Leaking to "trusted news sources" is still leaking! Further, my central claim, that Snowden leaked the details of legitimate foreign intelligence activities, is hard fact. Look at my response to 'abandonliberty'. As for him just being stuck in Russia, he claims to have been en route to Ecuador by way of Cuba by way of Russia. All of these, mind you, part of the same anti-American bloc (which Venezuela is also a member of).

dpark 10y ago
What do you imagine the alternate escape routes were? Do you think he could hide out in Wales? If you want to escape the clutches of the US, you must go somewhere that won't simply extradite you back to the US. Being in Russia, "stuck" or not isn't relevant to whether Snowden is a traitor. I also don't see how Ecuador is part of an "anti-American bloc" given that they are a democratic state and literally use the US dollar as their official currency.
- notpc 10y ago
  >I also don't see how Ecuador is part of an "anti-American bloc" given that they are a democratic state and literally use the US dollar as their official currency. You should familiarize yourself more then, with Rafael Correa, Hugo Chavez, and their foreign policy and overseas allies.
  - dpark 10y ago
    I should have left that out. The real point was to address the claim that he "fled to our adversaries". There are realistically no neutral parties that he could have fled to. I'll just concede on the Ecuadorian anti-Americanism. I don't think they're the worst but they are certainly not a dear friend.
    - notpc 10y ago
      The whole thing seems very cowardly. If Snowden truly thought he was acting in the best interests of his country, he could have: 1. Leaked only information about the NSA spying on Americans within the US. 2. Stayed within the US and faced the music. Instead, he damaged America's ability to collect intelligence on foreign countries by revealing our capabilities, and then fled into the arms of our adversaries who have used him as a propaganda piece. Our country exists with the freedom, prosperity, and influence we enjoy today because millions of men were willing to march to their deaths for it. Meanwhile, Snowden can't even face a jury of his peers for an act of civil disobedience? He must not think much of his cause.
      - dpark 10y ago
        This is a tired trope. Even if it's true that belief in a cause requires a willingness to die, that doesn't mean that it requires one to actually die. I don't see how Snowden staying around for a life or death sentence would have done anything useful for his cause. It's not "cowardly" to want to avoid life in a federal prison or death by lethal injection. You're just spouting soundbytes. You restated the "fled into the arms of our adversaries" line nearly verbatim but ignore the fact that there's nowhere else to "flee" because any country not willing to extradite him to the US is de facto "anti-American". You say he damaged our ability to collect data but don't have any proof. Was it embarrassing to the nation? Sure. Is there proof that it actually harmed us? I'm not aware of any. You also call him a coward as if level of bravery is relevant to treason as opposed to a pure appeal to emotion over logic.
        notpc 10y ago