4 ms·

Well, "large scale"... it's a culturally/racially homogeneous country of a little over 300k people. Whatever works there will probably not work anywhere else

edejong 10y ago
Please edit for typos and grammar fixes. Don't change the content.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
obmelvin 10y ago
The exact solution may not work, but the overall approach to finding a solution very well could. I also somewhat disagree with the notion that systems working in smaller countries cannot work in larger or more diverse countries (esp. regarding free education the US). It may be really, really damn hard, but such is the price of advancement of society.
- akjainaj 10y ago
  I think "stopping substance abuse" and "free education" are very different problems. The first one is completely social, at least, while the second one has a strong economical component.
- DKnoll 10y ago
  Calling Iceland even a 'smaller country' seems a bit of a leap, even if it were a city it would still be far from being considered a large one.
  - chimeracoder 10y ago
    > Calling Iceland even a 'smaller country' seems a bit of a leap, even if it were a city it would still be far from being considered a large one. Just a few numbers to put in perspective: * Iceland's population (as of 2013) was 323,000. * As of 2015, the US had 58 cities whose population was over 320,000. Combined, these cities account for about 16% of the total population of the US. Though, even that's a bit misleading, because city populations aren't actually as meaningful as metropolitan populations (since city boundaries are arbitrary, and traveling between a city and the adjacent suburbs is easy). Since Iceland is an island, it's more elucidating to compare it to metropolitan areas: * The US has 155 metropolitan areas whose population is larger than the 320,000. Together, these cities account for 74.7% of the US population. So, three-quarters of people living in the United States live in a metropolitan area whose population is greater than that of the entire country of Iceland.
    - mos_basik 10y ago
      That's beautifully put. Thank you.
EdHominem 10y ago
Why are all of you going on about race?
edejong 10y ago
... will probably not work ... I've enjoyed many of your comments, but these kind of phrases are almost impossible to argue with. Why won't they work? What would it take to make them work? Moreover, if it is true that heterogeneity implies data-driven impotence, how do we exert change to govern ourselves in a smaller scale, more homogeneous way?
- akjainaj 10y ago
  I believe a data-driven approach has worked here specifically because it's a very very small country with a very homogeneous culture. If we multiply the population by 1000, and if we introduce minorities and other agents that increase the heterogeneity of the population, the data-driven approach would stop working because there simply are too many things to take care of. It's like trying to win a war: as the amount of concurrent battles approaches infinity, so does the complexity of the war, and therefore the chances of winning sharply decrease. The solution, as you just said, is to govern ourselves in a smaller scale. Apply data-driven solutions (like this one from Iceland) to smaller communities, one by one. Also, make sure those who apply these solutions are knowledgeable about how those smaller communities work.
  - aylmao 10y ago
    You make it sound as if everyone in Iceland is literally the same person, and Mexican/African-American/Asian/White teens are irrevocably disjoint creatures from different planets or something.
    - coredog64 10y ago
      There is a popular smart phone application in Iceland that people use to find out if the person they are nominally attracted to is a cousin or similar close family relation.
      - dinkumthinkum 10y ago
        I wonder if the parent would take that as a challenge to create a startup around creating such an app for the US, since, well, apparently there is no compelling reason absent a pile of data to not think what works in one country won't work in another country .... That's not meant to be aggressive but I think it is a clear indictment of the reasoning used by many others rejecting what I think is a very obvious position.
flukus 10y ago
So it might not work on a national level anywhere else. What's to stop it being done at a city level everywhere else?
- nine_k 10y ago
  ...a city not being an island?
  - flukus 10y ago
    What difference does that make? The war on drugs is just as much a failure in isolated nations. They can manufacture locally easy enough.

edejong 10y ago

Please edit for typos and grammar fixes. Don't change the content.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

obmelvin 10y ago

The exact solution may not work, but the overall approach to finding a solution very well could. I also somewhat disagree with the notion that systems working in smaller countries cannot work in larger or more diverse countries (esp. regarding free education the US). It may be really, really damn hard, but such is the price of advancement of society.

akjainaj 10y ago
I think "stopping substance abuse" and "free education" are very different problems. The first one is completely social, at least, while the second one has a strong economical component.
DKnoll 10y ago
Calling Iceland even a 'smaller country' seems a bit of a leap, even if it were a city it would still be far from being considered a large one.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > Calling Iceland even a 'smaller country' seems a bit of a leap, even if it were a city it would still be far from being considered a large one. Just a few numbers to put in perspective: * Iceland's population (as of 2013) was 323,000. * As of 2015, the US had 58 cities whose population was over 320,000. Combined, these cities account for about 16% of the total population of the US. Though, even that's a bit misleading, because city populations aren't actually as meaningful as metropolitan populations (since city boundaries are arbitrary, and traveling between a city and the adjacent suburbs is easy). Since Iceland is an island, it's more elucidating to compare it to metropolitan areas: * The US has 155 metropolitan areas whose population is larger than the 320,000. Together, these cities account for 74.7% of the US population. So, three-quarters of people living in the United States live in a metropolitan area whose population is greater than that of the entire country of Iceland.
  - mos_basik 10y ago
    That's beautifully put. Thank you.

EdHominem 10y ago

Why are all of you going on about race?

edejong 10y ago

... will probably not work ... I've enjoyed many of your comments, but these kind of phrases are almost impossible to argue with. Why won't they work? What would it take to make them work? Moreover, if it is true that heterogeneity implies data-driven impotence, how do we exert change to govern ourselves in a smaller scale, more homogeneous way?

akjainaj 10y ago
I believe a data-driven approach has worked here specifically because it's a very very small country with a very homogeneous culture. If we multiply the population by 1000, and if we introduce minorities and other agents that increase the heterogeneity of the population, the data-driven approach would stop working because there simply are too many things to take care of. It's like trying to win a war: as the amount of concurrent battles approaches infinity, so does the complexity of the war, and therefore the chances of winning sharply decrease. The solution, as you just said, is to govern ourselves in a smaller scale. Apply data-driven solutions (like this one from Iceland) to smaller communities, one by one. Also, make sure those who apply these solutions are knowledgeable about how those smaller communities work.
- aylmao 10y ago
  You make it sound as if everyone in Iceland is literally the same person, and Mexican/African-American/Asian/White teens are irrevocably disjoint creatures from different planets or something.
  - coredog64 10y ago
    There is a popular smart phone application in Iceland that people use to find out if the person they are nominally attracted to is a cousin or similar close family relation.
    - dinkumthinkum 10y ago
      I wonder if the parent would take that as a challenge to create a startup around creating such an app for the US, since, well, apparently there is no compelling reason absent a pile of data to not think what works in one country won't work in another country .... That's not meant to be aggressive but I think it is a clear indictment of the reasoning used by many others rejecting what I think is a very obvious position.

flukus 10y ago

So it might not work on a national level anywhere else. What's to stop it being done at a city level everywhere else?

nine_k 10y ago
...a city not being an island?
- flukus 10y ago
  What difference does that make? The war on drugs is just as much a failure in isolated nations. They can manufacture locally easy enough.