6 ms·
> technology company systematically paid its white, male employees more than other workers and unlawfully favored Asian applicants in its recruiting and hiring
by eva1984 10y ago
> technology company systematically paid its white, male employees more than other workers and unlawfully favored Asian applicants in its recruiting and hiring efforts.
Wow...this is big.
- gozur88 10y agoAnd also not believable. The idea Oracle had a system that paid white guys more because they were white guys isn't credible without more than just salary evidence.
- eva1984 10y agoI mean the accusation itself. Whether it is true or not, we will have to see. It is going to be very interesting.
- caseysoftware 10y agoAccusations are cheap and easy. Facts and evidence are hard.
- eva1984 10y agoToo early to call. Let the court decide. Point is, the outcome will be significant. If Oracle wins, the diversity initiative that some mainstream media are pressuring to tech companies will take a blow. On the reverse side, an ethnic quota system is likely to be adapted by other large tech companies in order to avoid lawsuits.
- doingmyting 10y agoI'd expect the Justice dept would have some evidence of this if they are filing suit.
- crooked-v 10y agoSystematic discrimination is not the same as literally having a process to explicitly pay non-white people less.
- frandroid 10y agoI thought that was the very definition. Replace "process" with "system"...
- kartan 10y agoI see that as two different levels. Having and explicitly process to pay less non-whites is xenophobia. Paying less to non-whites because managers systematically think that they are worth less money is discrimination, as typically this valuation is based on stereotyping people. Companies have the obligation to train their managers so they don't discriminate their employees for causes of race, sex, etc.
- sp332 10y ago"Specifically, OFCCP found gross disparities in pay even after controlling for job title, full-time status, exempt status, global career level, job specialty, estimated prior work experience, and company tenure." https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/files/newsroom/newsreleases/OFCCP20170071.pdf https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/files/newsroom/newsrelease...
- svachalek 10y agoInteresting omission, "immigration status".
- obstacle1 10y agoSo, controlling for a bunch of stuff that doesn't predict value provided to a company by an individual or an individual's level of skill.
- sp332 10y agoDoesn't matter, the law they're accused of violating requires affirmative action plans if participation is too low. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11246 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11246
- ghurtado 10y agoI think you're misconstruing the meaning of the word systematically.
- Quanttek 10y agosystematically doesn't necessarily mean with a system
- allemagne 10y agoObviously, we'll see to all of that as the case develops.
- Spooky23 10y agoWhy is that unbelievable? They are one of the most outwardly testosterone-y companies anywhere. That kind of bullshit is catnip for fratbro types, who trend white.
- SamUK96 10y agoOkay, but do you have any evidence or experience that Oracle is "testerone-y", nevermind "outwardly" so? To generalise an entire company, a kind of global one at that, as that, just comes of as incredibly bitter and nieve.
- Spooky23 10y agoDo you do business with them in any capacity? They pay a lot of money to build that persona. Unreadable this, unbeatable that, sailboats, fighter jets, etc. I was in a meeting when some SVP dude called on us. His big story was how when they bought Sun they hit their target for shutting down EMEA Sun operations, but in doing so fucked their customers and they couldn't ship product for 3-4 months. It was pitched as a "good" story. I have no idea what the culture is like inside. I'm exclusively commenting on how they portray themselves to people sending them bags of money.
- SamUK96 10y agoDoing shady business is not "testerone-y", it has nothing to do with genders. It's a business tactic, a scheme, etc.. > Unreadable this, unbeatable that, sailboats, fighter jets, etc. A company stating it's "unbeatable", has "sailboats", or whatever, again, has nothing to do with "testerone". In fact, you'll find that for ever rich male CEO/owner of a company with a sailboat bragging about it, there will be a rich female CEO/owner of a sailboat bragging about it. You may have been mixed up since there are less female CEO's, so it seems that it's a "male thing", but really, every study shows that when but in the right position, females and males will do equally fantastic, or horrible, or stupid things. I think maybe you need to make things less about "male vs female"?
- 1_2__3 10y agoYou act like the DOJ is just shooting from the hip here. Yes, it's believable, because the DOJ said under penalty of perjury in a federal court that it's happening. Hand-wavey "not believable" replies are ridiculous.
- lawnchair_larry 10y agoThat isn't how DOJ charges work.
- gozur88 10y agoIf that were actually true we could dispense with the jury system.
- pm90 10y agoNo we would only need to dispense with armchair jurisprudence.
- blazespin 10y agoThe point is they don't have a system which doesn't do that.
- emcq 10y agoAnd supported by prior lawsuits against Oracle: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/13/oracle_sued_over_pay_discrimination/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/13/oracle_sued_over_pa...