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>The problem is this adorable libertarian dedication to freedom and voluntary interactions naturally ends the second any employer or commercial neighbor says it
by aminok 10y ago
>The problem is this adorable libertarian dedication to freedom and voluntary interactions naturally ends the second any employer or commercial neighbor says it ends. Such an arrangement produces freedom for the boardroom and nobody else.
First, your little "adorable" quip:
It's so adorable that I don't want people's human rights to be violated, and them to be imprisoned for engaging in a voluntary interaction with another consenting adult, or refusing to hand over a share of the currency they received in private trade!
So adorable that you've justified brute authoritarian infringements of other people's human rights!
Second the substance of your counterargument:
Nothing "ends" when the employer wants to end the relationship. A voluntary relationship means either party is free at any time to end that relationship. A free society doesn't mean you get whatever you want, even a relationship with someone who doesn't want to be in one with you.
The problem is emotionally fragile mental children can't accept this fact, and consequently appeal to government for authoritarian mandates to violate others human rights and force them to give into their illegitimate demands.
>And on the basis of influence over public policy, your argument is that these think tanks you name are somehow responsible for the really existing world under late capitalism: its skyrocketing levels of privatization, plummeting protections for workers, employees and neighbors, all-time lows in union membership, increasing latitude for business interests, monumental struggles to merely obtain wages that match the heightened productivity of modern workers, etc.
What "late stage capitalism"?
Social welfare spending has massively increased over the last 40 years. The last 40 years have seen the largest experiment in social democracy in human history.
Here are the raw statistics for all of the edgy teenagers who think we're in "late stage capitalism":
https://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/what-is-driving-growth-in-government-spending/?_r=1 https://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/what-is...
Annual inflation-adjusted spending growth on various components of social welfare spending (1972 - 2011):
>Pensions and retirement: 4.4%
>Healthcare: 5.7%
>Welfare: 4.1%
Annual inflation-adjusted economic growth over the time frame:
>2.7%
By every broad-based objective measure, the scale of forcible income redistribution has massively increased in relative and absolute terms.
The only thing the US has to show for it is slower productivity growth, lower wage growth, huge trade deficits, and I would argue, an explosion in single parenthood:
http://pinetreewatchdog.org/500-rise-in-single-parenthood-fueling-family-poverty-in-maine/ http://pinetreewatchdog.org/500-rise-in-single-parenthood-fu...
But thanks to the mass delusion that afflicts people like you, the popular wisdom says that we've increasingly adopted capitalism, and this is the source of all economic maladies, and that the solution is the ever elusive social democracy that we've allegedly been starved of.
>plummeting protections for workers, employees and neighbors, all-time lows in union membership, increasing latitude for business interests, monumental struggles to merely obtain wages that match the heightened productivity of modern workers, etc.
Again with the socialist double speak about authoritarian prohibitions that limit contracting rights being "protections".
There has been no reduction in the scope of laws that restrict the right of workers and employers to freely enter into contracts.
Unions succeeded in getting the public on their side, and the result was a vast number of new laws being passed that restrict the right of the majority of workers and employers, for the benefit of the lucky few in unions.
Unions still exist, but thanks to the laws they passed, and their exorbitant demands, they bankrupted or severely damaged all of the American manufacturers who didn't outsource to countries that still have a free market in employment (e.g. countries where an employer is allowed to fire workers who unionize or strike, and workers need to actually compete and perform to get and maintain a job), so you don't have many large private sector unions anymore, but unions in the government-sector are larger than ever, and sucking from the public teat like there's no tomorrow.
As for the supposed decoupling between wages and productivity, this is not true, and claims to the contrary are an artefact of misleading statistics. The following article explains both the problem with the statistics, and the source of the real problem, which is growing income disparity (hint: it has nothing to do with an over abundance of liberty):
https://www.brookings.edu/research/make-elites-compete-why-the-1-earn-so-much-and-what-to-do-about-it/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/make-elites-compete-why-t...
- harrumph 10y ago>It's so adorable that I don't want people's human rights to be violated ...except when the boardroom does it, and boardrooms do it all day every day, in far, far greater measure than the governments in our business-run society. That reality is what makes the word "freedom" in your mouth SO adorable. For example, here's a very small sampling of daily, real authoritarian tyranny that libertarians are perfectly fine with, along with the commonly given justifications: employers drug testing employees (just get another job!), making and selling military equipment for cops to use (herp derp markets!), private profit in markets with inelastic demand such as health insurance (all people are islands with no interest in the health of neighbors nor in their bankruptcies!), industrial pollution (just move somewhere else!), racial, gender or age discrimination at a place of business (freedom of association!), heightened tax burden for communities thanks to tax dodging by the communities' businesses (taxation is theft!) and on and on and on. >Nothing "ends" when the employer wants to end the relationship. And with this awesome nugget of sterling wrongness, we learn that the bubble in which you live apparently excludes the hundreds and hundreds of towns across this country that have become chained-shut, fentanyl-addicted hellholes precisely because the town's main employer and tax base ended the relationship -- usually in order to hire overseas children for pennies instead. Imagine living in a bubble so tiny that anyone could miss that. >Unions succeeded in getting the public on their side, and the result was a vast number of new laws being passed that restrict the right of the majority of workers and employers, for the benefit of the lucky few in unions. Unions still exist, but thanks to the laws they passed Yes, yes, we know the weekend, the eight-hour day, overtime, workplace safety and the end of child labor infringe on your freedom. That's exactly the point of the laws: to stop tyranny from people like you whose tiny bubble-worlds enable you to overlook the roasted corpses of workers trapped in fires engulfing factories run as shoddily as your freedom has allowed. Unlimited freedom for you means limited freedom for me, and you can bet we won't allow it.
- aminok 10y ago>...except when the boardroom does it, and boardrooms do it all day every day, in far, far greater measure than the governments in our business-run society. That reality is what makes the word "freedom" in your mouth SO adorable. A boardroom firing someone is not violating anyone's rights. You apparently don't understand the principle of people being free and being allowed to enter into voluntary contracts with each other, where they do not assume any responsibilities that they do not consent to, and do not become indebted to provide for that person for the remainder of their life. Shame on you and your inhuman demagoguery.