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>Assuming you're white, male, middle class, a resident of the United States, and work in the tech industry - you probably make up the majority of Mozillas workf

by bluthru 10y ago

>Assuming you're white, male, middle class, a resident of the United States, and work in the tech industry - you probably make up the majority of Mozillas workforce Why wouldn't it in the United States? >and are one of the most privileged people on the planet This sort of language rubs me the wrong way; it sort of invalidates the hard work of my ancestors who wanted to create a better life for their descendants.

disordinary 10y ago
Theft, warmongering, and exploitation by your ancestors (and peers) you mean? I realise that this will probably be taken as a troll like statement, but that's not my intention. In all earnestness we do need to take a hard look at ourselves and how we've behaved as a society, you can't own your ancestors hard work without also owning what they did to indigenous and minority people. And also what gives us the right to have all of these advantageous and benefits purely by an accident of birth?
- bluthru 10y ago
  Every group of humans has stolen, warmongered, and exploited others. The difference is who was able to create the technology to amplify those effects. White people were slaves. (The word slave derives from "Slav".) Africans sold off their own to the slave trade for profit. Whites were the only ones to die for the freedom of another race. There is more slavery occurring today in non-white countries than ever occurred in white countries. You get the point--it's not so black and white. Europe had practically no slaves, but that didn't stop Europeans from creating societies with the best quality of life. >And also what gives us the right to have all of these advantageous and benefits purely by an accident of birth? Humanity should only move as fast as the slowest person? Are you questioning the inherent genetic motivation for parents to care more about their offspring and community than someone on the other side of the world? It's wrong for a child to inherit what his ancestors built but right for someone on the other side of the world to inherit what someone else's ancestors built?
  - disordinary 10y ago
    That's exactly right, and it's still going. But we have the opportunity to stop it, and it starts by being more inclusive and projecting a friendly image to everyone. :) You should take a look at the Waitangi tribunal in New Zealand which redresses historical injustices to the Maori, it's not perfect but is a good illustration on a society owning up to its mistakes and trying to fix them and returns billions of dollars worth of assets to Iwi. The other thing that you seem to forget is that Mozilla is a global company, it has a bigger market presence in countries outside of the US and so it needs to tailor its marketing for a world audience. Less than 10% of the worlds population is of European descent, therefore you'd say that Europeans are over represented in the marketing.
    - bluthru 10y ago
      >The other thing that you seem to forget is that Mozilla is a global company Yes, but we can allow each office to reflect the local population and not the global population. >Less than 10% of the worlds population is of European descent, therefore you'd say that Europeans are over represented in the marketing. This is completely valid since Mozilla wants to reach a global audience. Since white people are a slim minority in the world, doesn't it seem wrong to encourage population displacement by people with a population privilege? Why are white countries targeted for not being "diverse" enough?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- cptskippy 10y ago
  > Theft, warmongering, and exploitation by your ancestors (and peers) you mean? The reason you're facing a backlash, and the inherit problem with your position is that you're stereotyping every Caucasian as a being born with a silver spoon in their mouth and completely dismissing any and all hardships they've faced. The entire basis for this entitlement you feel is built around the premise that we're all privileged and could stand to be brought down a couple pegs. You pretend that there isn't a lower class or that those in the lower class are still privileged by comparison because to admit otherwise would question your sense of entitlement. White privileged is our Original Sin I guess then?
  - disordinary 10y ago
    I don't think I'm facing a backlash, one person is upset - that same person also claimed that his race deserves to be dominant because it's genetically superior, so I've given up as there's no arguing with that depth of bigotry. You're missing valuable context in that comment, you can't own the hard work of your ancestors without owning their atrocities either, it might not have been your direct ancestors but it is the history of your society. You either forget that history or own all of it.
    - cptskippy 10y ago
      You failed to qualify or contextualize your remarks. You're speaking in generalities and with broad strokes. People don't choose how, when, or where they are born. They come into the world a blank slate and are shaped by those before them. They little choice in the matter. You can't forgive or dismiss the errs of one culture while holding another completely accountable for things that came before them. You can't dismiss their experience as invalid or insignificant because you feel that someone else is more important. That's the same type of reasoning and ignorance that led to the situation we're in.
      - disordinary 10y ago
        The context is in the conversation, we're talking about marketing material remember. I'm not dismissing anything, I'm saying we have the opportunity to break the cycle of inequality and anyone fighting that is not just ignorant but also deeply selfish.

by bluthru 10y ago

disordinary 10y ago

Theft, warmongering, and exploitation by your ancestors (and peers) you mean? I realise that this will probably be taken as a troll like statement, but that's not my intention. In all earnestness we do need to take a hard look at ourselves and how we've behaved as a society, you can't own your ancestors hard work without also owning what they did to indigenous and minority people. And also what gives us the right to have all of these advantageous and benefits purely by an accident of birth?

bluthru 10y ago
Every group of humans has stolen, warmongered, and exploited others. The difference is who was able to create the technology to amplify those effects. White people were slaves. (The word slave derives from "Slav".) Africans sold off their own to the slave trade for profit. Whites were the only ones to die for the freedom of another race. There is more slavery occurring today in non-white countries than ever occurred in white countries. You get the point--it's not so black and white. Europe had practically no slaves, but that didn't stop Europeans from creating societies with the best quality of life. >And also what gives us the right to have all of these advantageous and benefits purely by an accident of birth? Humanity should only move as fast as the slowest person? Are you questioning the inherent genetic motivation for parents to care more about their offspring and community than someone on the other side of the world? It's wrong for a child to inherit what his ancestors built but right for someone on the other side of the world to inherit what someone else's ancestors built?
- disordinary 10y ago
  That's exactly right, and it's still going. But we have the opportunity to stop it, and it starts by being more inclusive and projecting a friendly image to everyone. :) You should take a look at the Waitangi tribunal in New Zealand which redresses historical injustices to the Maori, it's not perfect but is a good illustration on a society owning up to its mistakes and trying to fix them and returns billions of dollars worth of assets to Iwi. The other thing that you seem to forget is that Mozilla is a global company, it has a bigger market presence in countries outside of the US and so it needs to tailor its marketing for a world audience. Less than 10% of the worlds population is of European descent, therefore you'd say that Europeans are over represented in the marketing.
  - bluthru 10y ago
    >The other thing that you seem to forget is that Mozilla is a global company Yes, but we can allow each office to reflect the local population and not the global population. >Less than 10% of the worlds population is of European descent, therefore you'd say that Europeans are over represented in the marketing. This is completely valid since Mozilla wants to reach a global audience. Since white people are a slim minority in the world, doesn't it seem wrong to encourage population displacement by people with a population privilege? Why are white countries targeted for not being "diverse" enough?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cptskippy 10y ago
> Theft, warmongering, and exploitation by your ancestors (and peers) you mean? The reason you're facing a backlash, and the inherit problem with your position is that you're stereotyping every Caucasian as a being born with a silver spoon in their mouth and completely dismissing any and all hardships they've faced. The entire basis for this entitlement you feel is built around the premise that we're all privileged and could stand to be brought down a couple pegs. You pretend that there isn't a lower class or that those in the lower class are still privileged by comparison because to admit otherwise would question your sense of entitlement. White privileged is our Original Sin I guess then?
- disordinary 10y ago
  I don't think I'm facing a backlash, one person is upset - that same person also claimed that his race deserves to be dominant because it's genetically superior, so I've given up as there's no arguing with that depth of bigotry. You're missing valuable context in that comment, you can't own the hard work of your ancestors without owning their atrocities either, it might not have been your direct ancestors but it is the history of your society. You either forget that history or own all of it.
  - cptskippy 10y ago
    You failed to qualify or contextualize your remarks. You're speaking in generalities and with broad strokes. People don't choose how, when, or where they are born. They come into the world a blank slate and are shaped by those before them. They little choice in the matter. You can't forgive or dismiss the errs of one culture while holding another completely accountable for things that came before them. You can't dismiss their experience as invalid or insignificant because you feel that someone else is more important. That's the same type of reasoning and ignorance that led to the situation we're in.
    - disordinary 10y ago
      The context is in the conversation, we're talking about marketing material remember. I'm not dismissing anything, I'm saying we have the opportunity to break the cycle of inequality and anyone fighting that is not just ignorant but also deeply selfish.