5 ms·

Look at the mirror. Big Sugar' best ally is not the nutritionist but the average American consumer. Between a fruit or a chocolate bar at identical prices, the

by mtw 10y ago

Look at the mirror. Big Sugar' best ally is not the nutritionist but the average American consumer. Between a fruit or a chocolate bar at identical prices, the vast majority of Americans will choose the chocolate bar. Most people will scoff at eating only veggies, whole grains, legumes, fruits (aka Mediterranean style diet). They will cheat and get their sweets, sugar and refined bakery products, even knowing the evidence. Sugar (or bad food) is an addiction. It's not about nutritionists or scientific evidence, it's about having enough mental strength to stay away from bad foods.

joecool1029 10y ago
> Sugar (or bad food) is an addiction. It's not about nutritionists or scientific evidence, it's about having enough mental strength to stay away from bad foods. You're close. Attempting to do so while not having any understanding of why things happen is a recipe for disaster. It must be reasoned that obesity is a disorder caused by something more then just 'poor eating habits'. There are physiotypes that will simply resist obesity on the worst of diets. I don't need to link a paper for this, this should be common sense from anyone's experience around enough people. So, if you reason that obesity is a disorder or sickness... you would then try to treat the cause, not the symptom. In the same sense that a person with a peanut allergy would simply avoid peanuts, a person with obesity may have this state caused by disturbed leptin/insulin signaling. A diet must then be designed to compensate for that disorder. (we know that once surplus white adipose tissue is grown, there's no going back, a modified diet must be adapted for life or those buckets just start filling again)
- everial 10y ago
  > we know that once surplus white adipose tissue is grown, there's no going back, a modified diet must be adapted for life or those buckets just start filling again Mind providing more references/reliable pointers on this?
  - joecool1029 10y ago
    Apologies, I can't find the precise paper covering what I mean. You will find that there's a suspicious lack of studies on formerly obese people. Paper to get you thinking on how WAT acts on signaling: http://www.cambridge.org.secure.sci-hub.bz/core/journals/proceedings-of-the-nutrition-society/article/div-classtitlephysiological-role-of-adipose-tissue-white-adipose-tissue-as-an-endocrine-and-secretory-organdiv/6F914782A23DBDEC3E582833F6A16717 http://www.cambridge.org.secure.sci-hub.bz/core/journals/pro... Paper on WAT quantity and its effects on metabolic syndrome. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.12519/pdf http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.12519/pdf . Where this one gets me thinking is that for some people, growing WAT may actually be an adaptation to prevent metabolic disorder from a poor diet. What we know is WAT can hold about 4x its size in fat before it divides into more. What we don't really know for humans is whether long term weight loss allows us to lose some of these, or whether they just deflate.... some rat studies show there can be a reduction, but for humans it would require repeated biopsy......
    - everial 10y ago
      Thanks for the paper links.
    - HeavenBanned 10y ago
      > There are physiotypes that will simply resist obesity on the worst of diets. Apologies for misunderstanding, but are you saying here that some individuals are able to eat as much as, say, a 300 lb obese male, yet somehow weigh-in at a rather fit (for example) 160 lb due to _genetic composition_?
Almaviva 10y ago
> whole grains Yet the glycemic index of whole wheat bread is higher than Coca Cola. (Look it up!) I.e. the same amount of calories of bread will spike your blood sugar more quickly than Coke. Metabolically, starchy foods including grains are a lot more like sugar than people who think they are making rational health decisions want to believe.
- ashark 10y ago
  Other cultures manage to stay much healthier while maintaining bread and white rice as major parts of their diet, though. The biggest common differences, from what I can tell, are: 1) fewer total calories, 2) way, way, way less candy (to include soda, many breakfast cereals) and dessert food (milk shake with those fries? Dessert. Donut? Dessert. Coffee cake? Dessert.) on average, 3) fewer convenience foods, and relatedly, less added sugar in diet, 4) less deep frying I'm less confident about these, but would guess dairy and fruit juice consumption also tends to be way lower in healthier societies. More cream sauces, yoghurt, and cheese, but much less drinking milk on its own, milk over breakfast cereal, grande Frappuccinos. Fruit juices more likely to be real and unadulterated, pricier, and less often consumed. Not cutting out carbs period, or even limiting them to a tiny percentage of calories. This makes me suspicious of painting too much of the carb kingdom as problematic per se. [EDIT] Formatting, "desert" to "dessert" because apparently I failed kindergarten. [EDIT2] Looks like I was wrong about milk ("fluid milk consumption") as a common difference: http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dff-fcil&s2=cons&s3=consglo&s4=tm-lt http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dff-fcil&s2=cons&s...
ar15saveslives 10y ago
Is there any proof that sugar is an addiction? It's anecdotal, but I'm on sugar-free diet right now (just out of interest, since Jan 1) and all I feel is that it's annoying that now I can't eat half of all I ate before. So may be it's a habit, but not attraction by any means. Now I'm considering two options: cancel this silly experiment or move ahead to higher level of insanity and stop eating anything that have sweet taste, like apples or bananas.
- xherberta 10y ago
  All carbohydrates break down into sugars, so that may explain why if you're not getting hoped-for benefits. My doctor told me to try cutting carbs to a level where I don't crave carbs. At that level, supposedly you're not whacking out your insulin/blood sugar levels. Speaking anecdotally, I have found that this level exists.
prostoalex 10y ago
For most people mental strength is a product of their personal convictions and supporting facts. Tobacco and alcohol are also addictive, also easily obtainable by most adults, and yet have not spun out of control. At certain point taxpayers en masse will have to make a decision between taxing sugary foods to control the rise of type 2 diabetes (removing the corn subsidies might also help) or reallocating an ever-increasing share of public funds to treating type 2 diabetes, foregoing other public spending priorities. > even knowing the evidence USDA food pyramid still treats fat as humber one enemy, stores still carry a wide variety of low-fat products, a Subway commercial as of two years ago still advised the hapless obese character to "eat less fat", and a caring daughter in the morning commercials still pours her father a bowl full of sugar-laden Cheerios because those "can lower your cholesterol". I think you're overestimating the level of nutritional prowess the average American has. Even if the evidence is out there, few people aside from Gary Taubes are reading nutritional journals.

by mtw 10y ago

joecool1029 10y ago

> Sugar (or bad food) is an addiction. It's not about nutritionists or scientific evidence, it's about having enough mental strength to stay away from bad foods. You're close. Attempting to do so while not having any understanding of why things happen is a recipe for disaster. It must be reasoned that obesity is a disorder caused by something more then just 'poor eating habits'. There are physiotypes that will simply resist obesity on the worst of diets. I don't need to link a paper for this, this should be common sense from anyone's experience around enough people. So, if you reason that obesity is a disorder or sickness... you would then try to treat the cause, not the symptom. In the same sense that a person with a peanut allergy would simply avoid peanuts, a person with obesity may have this state caused by disturbed leptin/insulin signaling. A diet must then be designed to compensate for that disorder. (we know that once surplus white adipose tissue is grown, there's no going back, a modified diet must be adapted for life or those buckets just start filling again)

everial 10y ago
> we know that once surplus white adipose tissue is grown, there's no going back, a modified diet must be adapted for life or those buckets just start filling again Mind providing more references/reliable pointers on this?
- joecool1029 10y ago
  Apologies, I can't find the precise paper covering what I mean. You will find that there's a suspicious lack of studies on formerly obese people. Paper to get you thinking on how WAT acts on signaling: http://www.cambridge.org.secure.sci-hub.bz/core/journals/proceedings-of-the-nutrition-society/article/div-classtitlephysiological-role-of-adipose-tissue-white-adipose-tissue-as-an-endocrine-and-secretory-organdiv/6F914782A23DBDEC3E582833F6A16717 http://www.cambridge.org.secure.sci-hub.bz/core/journals/pro... Paper on WAT quantity and its effects on metabolic syndrome. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.12519/pdf http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.12519/pdf . Where this one gets me thinking is that for some people, growing WAT may actually be an adaptation to prevent metabolic disorder from a poor diet. What we know is WAT can hold about 4x its size in fat before it divides into more. What we don't really know for humans is whether long term weight loss allows us to lose some of these, or whether they just deflate.... some rat studies show there can be a reduction, but for humans it would require repeated biopsy......
  - everial 10y ago
    Thanks for the paper links.
  - HeavenBanned 10y ago
    > There are physiotypes that will simply resist obesity on the worst of diets. Apologies for misunderstanding, but are you saying here that some individuals are able to eat as much as, say, a 300 lb obese male, yet somehow weigh-in at a rather fit (for example) 160 lb due to _genetic composition_?

Almaviva 10y ago

> whole grains Yet the glycemic index of whole wheat bread is higher than Coca Cola. (Look it up!) I.e. the same amount of calories of bread will spike your blood sugar more quickly than Coke. Metabolically, starchy foods including grains are a lot more like sugar than people who think they are making rational health decisions want to believe.

ashark 10y ago
Other cultures manage to stay much healthier while maintaining bread and white rice as major parts of their diet, though. The biggest common differences, from what I can tell, are: 1) fewer total calories, 2) way, way, way less candy (to include soda, many breakfast cereals) and dessert food (milk shake with those fries? Dessert. Donut? Dessert. Coffee cake? Dessert.) on average, 3) fewer convenience foods, and relatedly, less added sugar in diet, 4) less deep frying I'm less confident about these, but would guess dairy and fruit juice consumption also tends to be way lower in healthier societies. More cream sauces, yoghurt, and cheese, but much less drinking milk on its own, milk over breakfast cereal, grande Frappuccinos. Fruit juices more likely to be real and unadulterated, pricier, and less often consumed. Not cutting out carbs period, or even limiting them to a tiny percentage of calories. This makes me suspicious of painting too much of the carb kingdom as problematic per se. [EDIT] Formatting, "desert" to "dessert" because apparently I failed kindergarten. [EDIT2] Looks like I was wrong about milk ("fluid milk consumption") as a common difference: http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dff-fcil&s2=cons&s3=consglo&s4=tm-lt http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dff-fcil&s2=cons&s...

ar15saveslives 10y ago

Is there any proof that sugar is an addiction? It's anecdotal, but I'm on sugar-free diet right now (just out of interest, since Jan 1) and all I feel is that it's annoying that now I can't eat half of all I ate before. So may be it's a habit, but not attraction by any means. Now I'm considering two options: cancel this silly experiment or move ahead to higher level of insanity and stop eating anything that have sweet taste, like apples or bananas.

xherberta 10y ago
All carbohydrates break down into sugars, so that may explain why if you're not getting hoped-for benefits. My doctor told me to try cutting carbs to a level where I don't crave carbs. At that level, supposedly you're not whacking out your insulin/blood sugar levels. Speaking anecdotally, I have found that this level exists.

prostoalex 10y ago

For most people mental strength is a product of their personal convictions and supporting facts. Tobacco and alcohol are also addictive, also easily obtainable by most adults, and yet have not spun out of control. At certain point taxpayers en masse will have to make a decision between taxing sugary foods to control the rise of type 2 diabetes (removing the corn subsidies might also help) or reallocating an ever-increasing share of public funds to treating type 2 diabetes, foregoing other public spending priorities. > even knowing the evidence USDA food pyramid still treats fat as humber one enemy, stores still carry a wide variety of low-fat products, a Subway commercial as of two years ago still advised the hapless obese character to "eat less fat", and a caring daughter in the morning commercials still pours her father a bowl full of sugar-laden Cheerios because those "can lower your cholesterol". I think you're overestimating the level of nutritional prowess the average American has. Even if the evidence is out there, few people aside from Gary Taubes are reading nutritional journals.