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One big question in the minds of many customers might be political stability. Tunisia had a revolution in 2011, correct? Switzerland, in contrast, hasn't been i

by ekidd 10y ago

One big question in the minds of many customers might be political stability. Tunisia had a revolution in 2011, correct? Switzerland, in contrast, hasn't been invaded for 500 years IIRC, despite being literally in the middle of two world wars. There's definitely a commericial market for storing paper documents for decades, maybe up to a century. This is currently addressed by existing mine-based storage companies, among other things. Plus mines are secure: There's often only one way in and the storage is surrounded by rock. Burying things under sand and rock in the desert obviously works for millennia; the ancient Egyptians were onto something.

Cyph0n 10y ago
> One big question in the minds of many customers might be political stability. Tunisia had a revolution in 2011, correct? Correct, but the transition was from an autocracy to a fledgling democracy; the opposite would be more concerning. Security and infrastructure are both improving. Foreign investments are on the rise. This is the absolute best time to be setting up a foreign business in Tunisia, since the government will basically pay you money to do so. Oh, and skilled labor is extremely cheap and the currency is at a low right now. The only issue is that English is a 3rd language - French is more common - but Tunisians are starting to adopt English more as it opens more doors, especially on the internet. > Switzerland, in contrast, hasn't been invaded for 500 years IIRC, despite being literally in the middle of two world wars. Great, but the labor costs and bureaucratic overhead alone would be prohibitively high - 500 years of stability doesn't come for free! Another issue for such a business specifically is that Switzerland is landlocked. Tunisia's access to the sea is excellent, and it has a number of ports spread from north to south (the beaches are amazing btw!). Tunisia is also very close to Europe, and is the northernmost country in Africa. The advantage Tunisia has over its North African neighbors (Morocco, Algeria, and Libya) is that sea access is better, and getting to the desert is easier as Tunisia is smaller in size.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  > Correct, but the transition was from an autocracy to a fledgling democracy; the opposite would be more concerning. Security and infrastructure are both improving. Foreign investments are on the rise. The issue is less "how's it going right now" and more "how will it be in a few centuries".
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    I can name several empires and/or civilizations that were stable for much longer than Switzerland has. The ones that remain are now essentially third-world countries. The current world super power was colonized by a foreign force just 300 years back. That same occupying force can now be crushed by said super power. The two great powers of the 15th century are now each facing a severe economic crisis. The past is not a reliable indicator of the future.
- ComputerGuru 10y ago
  > Correct, but the transition was from an autocracy to a fledgling democracy; the opposite would be more concerning. Alas, Egypt just recently went from a (fledgling) democracy under Morsi to a military autocracy under Sisi.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    Yes, and I'm still not over that to be honest. We were in it together, but foreign interests didn't seem to align with the will of the Egyptian people. Egypt is a regional power, so they wouldn't let it off as easily. Plus, I recall that Morsi made some questionable decisions throughout his (short) term as president. I wish my Egyptian brothers and sisters the best.
MrZongle2 10y ago
"Burying things under sand and rock in the desert obviously works for millennia; the ancient Egyptians were onto something." I'm of the mind that burying such records in a highly-conspicuous site on the Moon might be a better solution. Much less risk to geological processes or tomb raiders; if you can get that far from Earth then you might be responsible enough to deal with the archive.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  But our successors may not have the technology to access an archive on the Moon - e.g., post-nuclear war - which defeats the whole purpose. Edit: Just noticed your last remark. What does responsibility have to do with being able to access an archive of human knowledge and culture?
  - MrZongle2 10y ago
    My thought was that if a party can coordinate a flight to the Moon then that party is intelligent enough to recognize and appreciate such an archive...rather than destroy it. As opposed to the likes of the Taliban, who made a point to destroy historical works. None of this means that multiple, redundant archives cannot be created. I just think that the Moon offers a unique level of protection from those would would destroy or otherwise degrade such a collection.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    Who cares about any possible "successors"? I say we should put this archive on the Moon (or better yet, copies on the Moon, Mars, and all the geologically-inactive planets or planetoids in this system), not for us, but for any alien archeologists who happen to make it here, so they can document our existence and use it to learn about the mistakes of a failed civilization. Because if this information is ever needed, we'll probably have wiped ourselves out, and this planet is not a safe place to store such information as it'll either be destroyed by our weapons of mass destruction or by natural forces over time after we're extinct. If we actually do have successors, they'll probably destroy the archive when they get their hands on it, just like the Taliban do to everything historical they find.
beat 10y ago
Some of the oldest libraries in the world were in Timbuktu, in Mali. Much of that material was destroyed during the 2012 civil war in Mali, in which Ansar Dine Islamist forces (aligned with Al Qaeda) smashed everything that did not align with their particular interpretation of Islam. It's very difficult to design a library that can survive the waves of human political conflict for millennia.
- ahartman00 10y ago
  redundancy. i feel like it would be unlikely to have a war that spanned multiple continents. (i know about the world wars , but those didnt affect south america or most of africa and asia.) of course, you'd have to be ok with photocopies instead of originals. for the purpose of preserving information, i dont see a problem with photocopies.
  - ComputerGuru 10y ago
    > (i know about the world wars , but those didnt affect south america or most of africa and asia Really? Russia, Japan, the fall of the Ottoman empire, the creation of the state of Israel and its ongoing repercussions, the start of a century of US involvement in South America to protect the Panama Canal and other assets, Mussolini, Libya, Tunisia, and Morocco were not enough for you? China lost 14 million people to WWII... WWII is pretty much singlehandedly responsible as a turning point for the ongoing mess in South America, North Africa, and the Middle East.
    - ahartman00 10y ago
      my point was that archives in multiple locations would be much more resilient to destruction. Even if there is conflict, no single party could easily destroy the entire library if it was distributed. they might get one or two, but we wouldnt lose access to the libraries contents.
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by ekidd 10y ago

Cyph0n 10y ago

> One big question in the minds of many customers might be political stability. Tunisia had a revolution in 2011, correct? Correct, but the transition was from an autocracy to a fledgling democracy; the opposite would be more concerning. Security and infrastructure are both improving. Foreign investments are on the rise. This is the absolute best time to be setting up a foreign business in Tunisia, since the government will basically pay you money to do so. Oh, and skilled labor is extremely cheap and the currency is at a low right now. The only issue is that English is a 3rd language - French is more common - but Tunisians are starting to adopt English more as it opens more doors, especially on the internet. > Switzerland, in contrast, hasn't been invaded for 500 years IIRC, despite being literally in the middle of two world wars. Great, but the labor costs and bureaucratic overhead alone would be prohibitively high - 500 years of stability doesn't come for free! Another issue for such a business specifically is that Switzerland is landlocked. Tunisia's access to the sea is excellent, and it has a number of ports spread from north to south (the beaches are amazing btw!). Tunisia is also very close to Europe, and is the northernmost country in Africa. The advantage Tunisia has over its North African neighbors (Morocco, Algeria, and Libya) is that sea access is better, and getting to the desert is easier as Tunisia is smaller in size.

ceejayoz 10y ago
> Correct, but the transition was from an autocracy to a fledgling democracy; the opposite would be more concerning. Security and infrastructure are both improving. Foreign investments are on the rise. The issue is less "how's it going right now" and more "how will it be in a few centuries".
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  I can name several empires and/or civilizations that were stable for much longer than Switzerland has. The ones that remain are now essentially third-world countries. The current world super power was colonized by a foreign force just 300 years back. That same occupying force can now be crushed by said super power. The two great powers of the 15th century are now each facing a severe economic crisis. The past is not a reliable indicator of the future.
ComputerGuru 10y ago
> Correct, but the transition was from an autocracy to a fledgling democracy; the opposite would be more concerning. Alas, Egypt just recently went from a (fledgling) democracy under Morsi to a military autocracy under Sisi.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  Yes, and I'm still not over that to be honest. We were in it together, but foreign interests didn't seem to align with the will of the Egyptian people. Egypt is a regional power, so they wouldn't let it off as easily. Plus, I recall that Morsi made some questionable decisions throughout his (short) term as president. I wish my Egyptian brothers and sisters the best.

MrZongle2 10y ago

"Burying things under sand and rock in the desert obviously works for millennia; the ancient Egyptians were onto something." I'm of the mind that burying such records in a highly-conspicuous site on the Moon might be a better solution. Much less risk to geological processes or tomb raiders; if you can get that far from Earth then you might be responsible enough to deal with the archive.

Cyph0n 10y ago
But our successors may not have the technology to access an archive on the Moon - e.g., post-nuclear war - which defeats the whole purpose. Edit: Just noticed your last remark. What does responsibility have to do with being able to access an archive of human knowledge and culture?
- MrZongle2 10y ago
  My thought was that if a party can coordinate a flight to the Moon then that party is intelligent enough to recognize and appreciate such an archive...rather than destroy it. As opposed to the likes of the Taliban, who made a point to destroy historical works. None of this means that multiple, redundant archives cannot be created. I just think that the Moon offers a unique level of protection from those would would destroy or otherwise degrade such a collection.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  Who cares about any possible "successors"? I say we should put this archive on the Moon (or better yet, copies on the Moon, Mars, and all the geologically-inactive planets or planetoids in this system), not for us, but for any alien archeologists who happen to make it here, so they can document our existence and use it to learn about the mistakes of a failed civilization. Because if this information is ever needed, we'll probably have wiped ourselves out, and this planet is not a safe place to store such information as it'll either be destroyed by our weapons of mass destruction or by natural forces over time after we're extinct. If we actually do have successors, they'll probably destroy the archive when they get their hands on it, just like the Taliban do to everything historical they find.

beat 10y ago

Some of the oldest libraries in the world were in Timbuktu, in Mali. Much of that material was destroyed during the 2012 civil war in Mali, in which Ansar Dine Islamist forces (aligned with Al Qaeda) smashed everything that did not align with their particular interpretation of Islam. It's very difficult to design a library that can survive the waves of human political conflict for millennia.

ahartman00 10y ago
redundancy. i feel like it would be unlikely to have a war that spanned multiple continents. (i know about the world wars , but those didnt affect south america or most of africa and asia.) of course, you'd have to be ok with photocopies instead of originals. for the purpose of preserving information, i dont see a problem with photocopies.
- ComputerGuru 10y ago
  > (i know about the world wars , but those didnt affect south america or most of africa and asia Really? Russia, Japan, the fall of the Ottoman empire, the creation of the state of Israel and its ongoing repercussions, the start of a century of US involvement in South America to protect the Panama Canal and other assets, Mussolini, Libya, Tunisia, and Morocco were not enough for you? China lost 14 million people to WWII... WWII is pretty much singlehandedly responsible as a turning point for the ongoing mess in South America, North Africa, and the Middle East.
  - ahartman00 10y ago
    my point was that archives in multiple locations would be much more resilient to destruction. Even if there is conflict, no single party could easily destroy the entire library if it was distributed. they might get one or two, but we wouldnt lose access to the libraries contents.
- deleted 10y ago
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- deleted 10y ago