4 ms·

They will never move to Paris. It's a rhetorical negotiating position.

tankenmate 10y ago
You may wish to check the EU Financial Services Passporting regulations; in particular the supervision of "significant-plus" branches and the Technical Standards for information exchange between the home office and the branch offices (if any are in the EU), and supervision of those offices and relevant local authorities.[0] [0] https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/passporting-and-supervision-of-branches https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/passporting-...
- charlesdm 10y ago
  1. Passporting isn't required for all banking activities. It is required for sourcing certain capital, for example. You can still have plenty of people in London, without access to the single market, handling capital of investors in the EU. 2. Paris (France), really? They are as anti capitalist as they get. Just look at the wealth tax thing only a couple of years ago. A gazillion little things like that exist in France. I mean, I love the country, but no, just no. It's not a place you go to run (or found) any business, I would say. There would need to be a very good reason to do so.
  - renaudg 10y ago
    Paris is already the highest ranked financial center in the eurozone, according to at least one index : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_centre#International_Financial_Centres_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_centre#International...
    - charlesdm 10y ago
      It has grown historically into a financial center, yes, over centuries. But how many executives (that aren't french citizens) are deciding today that they want to base financial firms in Paris and live there, over London? The UK is much more pro business than France is. And it still will be, even after Brexit. I love both cities, but you just can't put them next to each other (for finance) and expect Paris to win on the professional end, in my opinion.
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      Maybe if its financial centers were stronger, it would have also passed on it, like the UK and Switzerland.
krona 10y ago
Exactly. They even announced they weren't going to move headquarters to Hong Kong (which is the only real alternative for HSBC, lets be honest) before the referendum result, saying it was mostly irrelevant. Yes they may move some trading desks. So what? Banks do this all the time. Take for instance ING which is moving ~60 trading desks to London from Netherlands, despite Brexit. The fact he's announced Paris as the destination seems to indicate to me he hasn't put much serious consideration in to it.
- simonh 10y ago
  So don't worry about the 1,000 HSBC (and other bank's) traders that will have to move if we lose Passporting. It's OK because we're getting 60 from the Netherlands. I don't think London's status as a financial hub is seriously under threat. Most of the business we do doesn't rely on EU financial services passporting rights. But that part which does will have to move, if we lose those rights. For example clearing trades for exchanges on the continent is another area where London has hoovered up most of the business from across Europe, but those gains will have to be unwound if we lose Passporting.
  - charlesdm 10y ago
    Not all trading activities require passporting? Most of the passporting rights have to do with sourcing capital, not necessarily trading.
  - krona 10y ago
    No passporting rights exist for third-country firms under MiFID, but the position is set to change when MiFID II and MiFIR comes into force from 3 January 2018.
    - simonh 10y ago
      Interesting, I wasn't aware of that thanks. I just did some reading up. However it looks like to be eligible the UK would have to effectively rubber stamp all the EU's financial services regulations into UK law, but of course without any of our current influence as a member over drafting it. So much for winning back Parliamentary sovereignty!

You may wish to check the EU Financial Services Passporting regulations; in particular the supervision of "significant-plus" branches and the Technical Standards for information exchange between the home office and the branch offices (if any are in the EU), and supervision of those offices and relevant local authorities.[0] [0] https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/passporting-and-supervision-of-branches https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/passporting-...

charlesdm 10y ago
1. Passporting isn't required for all banking activities. It is required for sourcing certain capital, for example. You can still have plenty of people in London, without access to the single market, handling capital of investors in the EU. 2. Paris (France), really? They are as anti capitalist as they get. Just look at the wealth tax thing only a couple of years ago. A gazillion little things like that exist in France. I mean, I love the country, but no, just no. It's not a place you go to run (or found) any business, I would say. There would need to be a very good reason to do so.
- renaudg 10y ago
  Paris is already the highest ranked financial center in the eurozone, according to at least one index : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_centre#International_Financial_Centres_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_centre#International...
  - charlesdm 10y ago
    It has grown historically into a financial center, yes, over centuries. But how many executives (that aren't french citizens) are deciding today that they want to base financial firms in Paris and live there, over London? The UK is much more pro business than France is. And it still will be, even after Brexit. I love both cities, but you just can't put them next to each other (for finance) and expect Paris to win on the professional end, in my opinion.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    Maybe if its financial centers were stronger, it would have also passed on it, like the UK and Switzerland.

krona 10y ago

Exactly. They even announced they weren't going to move headquarters to Hong Kong (which is the only real alternative for HSBC, lets be honest) before the referendum result, saying it was mostly irrelevant. Yes they may move some trading desks. So what? Banks do this all the time. Take for instance ING which is moving ~60 trading desks to London from Netherlands, despite Brexit. The fact he's announced Paris as the destination seems to indicate to me he hasn't put much serious consideration in to it.

simonh 10y ago
So don't worry about the 1,000 HSBC (and other bank's) traders that will have to move if we lose Passporting. It's OK because we're getting 60 from the Netherlands. I don't think London's status as a financial hub is seriously under threat. Most of the business we do doesn't rely on EU financial services passporting rights. But that part which does will have to move, if we lose those rights. For example clearing trades for exchanges on the continent is another area where London has hoovered up most of the business from across Europe, but those gains will have to be unwound if we lose Passporting.
- charlesdm 10y ago
  Not all trading activities require passporting? Most of the passporting rights have to do with sourcing capital, not necessarily trading.
- krona 10y ago
  No passporting rights exist for third-country firms under MiFID, but the position is set to change when MiFID II and MiFIR comes into force from 3 January 2018.
  - simonh 10y ago
    Interesting, I wasn't aware of that thanks. I just did some reading up. However it looks like to be eligible the UK would have to effectively rubber stamp all the EU's financial services regulations into UK law, but of course without any of our current influence as a member over drafting it. So much for winning back Parliamentary sovereignty!