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They also can't stand still, so they invest in experiments and R&D, much like how companies are doing. Most of those experiments are failures naturally, so they

They also can't stand still, so they invest in experiments and R&D, much like how companies are doing. Most of those experiments are failures naturally, so they tried Firefox OS and failed, they tried Persona and failed, but that's what experimenting is and without burning some money on that, you'll never build those projects that make a difference. There is a reason those failed (lack of focus or any long-term plans are one). Reading your message again, I don't understand what's your problem with Mozilla. And why is Mozilla under so much pressure on HN, whereas companies such as Apple and Google are getting a free pass? Is it because they are a non-profit Have we been reading the same HN? I think people are critical of Mozilla because they are one of the few groups trying to build an open web and their constant back and forth and closing down projects has had some real effects on progress. Also, the firing of Eich for political views will always be controversial.

gcp 10y ago
Isn't closing down projects (that don't seem to be succeeding and are taking resources) exactly evidence of focus? Eich wasn't fired. He quit because he felt Mozilla was put under too much pressure because of him. Ironic you should remark that given the point of the post you're replying to: he quit exactly because of the reason you are using as justification. I wonder what will happen when it leaks out the new CEO voted for Trump/Hillary.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  There are lots of people who believe that Persona, if properly integrated with browsers could have taken off. You can find old HN threads where people were begging them to do x y an z and it instead remained a neat but underutilized project. FirefoxOS? Either commit to it or don't, but the way it was rolled out and abandoned after a few years didn't feel especially strategic. Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired.
  - gcp 10y ago
    the way it was rolled out and abandoned after a few years didn't feel especially strategic This doesn't "feel" like a very well substantiated argument either. It received little traction, users didn't like the performance of the devices at the price points needed to penetrate the market, key apps (hi WhatsApp!) had announced they would not port , and Google responded in force with Android One. It took enormous amounts of resources from Firefox development. Looks to me like they committed as far as they could without bringing the entire company under. Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired. Mozilla Foundation people (i.e. not his employees) actually. But anyway, I hope this argument works for the president too.
    - flukus 10y ago
      > This doesn't "feel" like a very well substantiated argument either. It received little traction, users didn't like the performance of the devices at the price points needed to penetrate the market I had a toy firefox phone to play with that had potato level processing power. I was actually surprised by how smooth everything was, way better than android on way less hardware. Firefox seems to be the only browser optimized for portables.
  - bad_user 10y ago
    Compared to what other companies are doing, Persona's source-code is open source [1] and you or others are free to continue that project if you think it makes a difference. As it happens Mozilla isn't under any obligation to you or anybody else to continue a project that is draining resources and given its open-source nature, if nobody picks it up, then I doubt its viability. Firefox OS from an "open web" perspective, was primarily a vehicle to push for the standardization of web APIs needed for mobile devices. It has succeeded in doing that and many Firefox OS improvements are now incorporated into Firefox for Android. But given the complete dominance of Android on the low end, it would have been extremely foolish to continue it, as that would have been literally burning through cash. Consider that even Microsoft has failed spectacularly, given all their resources and experience in building operating systems. > Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired. Wait, people are allowed to speak their own mind? Oh, the horror. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/persona https://github.com/mozilla/persona
disordinary 10y ago
Eich stepped down. There was so much pressure on him from the community that he had no choice. Mozilla isn't beholden to shareholders or profit there goal is more social in nature and they've built their entire marketing and strategy around being the open and democratised internet, Eich had no choice. Companies like Google shut down projects every day, one of the differences is that Mozilla works in the open and isn't so secretive. But, I do know former employees and the company overall is a mess, with some teams better than others. People say the same thing about Apple though.

gcp 10y ago

Isn't closing down projects (that don't seem to be succeeding and are taking resources) exactly evidence of focus? Eich wasn't fired. He quit because he felt Mozilla was put under too much pressure because of him. Ironic you should remark that given the point of the post you're replying to: he quit exactly because of the reason you are using as justification. I wonder what will happen when it leaks out the new CEO voted for Trump/Hillary.

aaron-lebo 10y ago
There are lots of people who believe that Persona, if properly integrated with browsers could have taken off. You can find old HN threads where people were begging them to do x y an z and it instead remained a neat but underutilized project. FirefoxOS? Either commit to it or don't, but the way it was rolled out and abandoned after a few years didn't feel especially strategic. Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired.
- gcp 10y ago
  the way it was rolled out and abandoned after a few years didn't feel especially strategic This doesn't "feel" like a very well substantiated argument either. It received little traction, users didn't like the performance of the devices at the price points needed to penetrate the market, key apps (hi WhatsApp!) had announced they would not port , and Google responded in force with Android One. It took enormous amounts of resources from Firefox development. Looks to me like they committed as far as they could without bringing the entire company under. Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired. Mozilla Foundation people (i.e. not his employees) actually. But anyway, I hope this argument works for the president too.
  - flukus 10y ago
    > This doesn't "feel" like a very well substantiated argument either. It received little traction, users didn't like the performance of the devices at the price points needed to penetrate the market I had a toy firefox phone to play with that had potato level processing power. I was actually surprised by how smooth everything was, way better than android on way less hardware. Firefox seems to be the only browser optimized for portables.
- bad_user 10y ago
  Compared to what other companies are doing, Persona's source-code is open source [1] and you or others are free to continue that project if you think it makes a difference. As it happens Mozilla isn't under any obligation to you or anybody else to continue a project that is draining resources and given its open-source nature, if nobody picks it up, then I doubt its viability. Firefox OS from an "open web" perspective, was primarily a vehicle to push for the standardization of web APIs needed for mobile devices. It has succeeded in doing that and many Firefox OS improvements are now incorporated into Firefox for Android. But given the complete dominance of Android on the low end, it would have been extremely foolish to continue it, as that would have been literally burning through cash. Consider that even Microsoft has failed spectacularly, given all their resources and experience in building operating systems. > Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired. Wait, people are allowed to speak their own mind? Oh, the horror. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/persona https://github.com/mozilla/persona

disordinary 10y ago

Eich stepped down. There was so much pressure on him from the community that he had no choice. Mozilla isn't beholden to shareholders or profit there goal is more social in nature and they've built their entire marketing and strategy around being the open and democratised internet, Eich had no choice. Companies like Google shut down projects every day, one of the differences is that Mozilla works in the open and isn't so secretive. But, I do know former employees and the company overall is a mess, with some teams better than others. People say the same thing about Apple though.