4 ms·

The millions they are getting from Google are probably spent mostly on salaries, since developers are expensive and it takes big teams to build products like Fi

The millions they are getting from Google are probably spent mostly on salaries, since developers are expensive and it takes big teams to build products like Firefox and do marketing for it. Saying that they "burn through millions" is mean spirited, since that's the cost of doing business in this industry. Plus they've earned those millions, so it's theirs to burn. They also can't stand still, so they invest in experiments and R&D, much like how companies are doing. Most of those experiments are failures naturally, so they tried Firefox OS and failed, they tried Persona and failed, but that's what experimenting is, HN readers should understand that and without burning some money on that, you'll never build those projects that make a difference. Reading your message again, I don't understand what's your problem with Mozilla. And why is Mozilla under so much pressure on HN, whereas companies such as Apple and Google are getting a free pass on how they spend their money and on moral issues? Is it because they are a non-profit? That's the only explanation that's reasonable for what is in my eyes a huge double standard. > Alternatively, ditch "Mozilla" and "Foundation", and rebrand as just "Firefox". Everybody loves Firefox. Except that Firefox per se isn't why I love supporting them. I'm supporting Mozilla because of their values and I use Firefox as my main browser because I trust Mozilla to protect my interests more than I trust others, not because Firefox is technically the best, because saying that at this point wouldn't be true.

aaron-lebo 10y ago
They also can't stand still, so they invest in experiments and R&D, much like how companies are doing. Most of those experiments are failures naturally, so they tried Firefox OS and failed, they tried Persona and failed, but that's what experimenting is and without burning some money on that, you'll never build those projects that make a difference. There is a reason those failed (lack of focus or any long-term plans are one). Reading your message again, I don't understand what's your problem with Mozilla. And why is Mozilla under so much pressure on HN, whereas companies such as Apple and Google are getting a free pass? Is it because they are a non-profit Have we been reading the same HN? I think people are critical of Mozilla because they are one of the few groups trying to build an open web and their constant back and forth and closing down projects has had some real effects on progress. Also, the firing of Eich for political views will always be controversial.
- gcp 10y ago
  Isn't closing down projects (that don't seem to be succeeding and are taking resources) exactly evidence of focus? Eich wasn't fired. He quit because he felt Mozilla was put under too much pressure because of him. Ironic you should remark that given the point of the post you're replying to: he quit exactly because of the reason you are using as justification. I wonder what will happen when it leaks out the new CEO voted for Trump/Hillary.
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    There are lots of people who believe that Persona, if properly integrated with browsers could have taken off. You can find old HN threads where people were begging them to do x y an z and it instead remained a neat but underutilized project. FirefoxOS? Either commit to it or don't, but the way it was rolled out and abandoned after a few years didn't feel especially strategic. Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired.
    - gcp 10y ago
      the way it was rolled out and abandoned after a few years didn't feel especially strategic This doesn't "feel" like a very well substantiated argument either. It received little traction, users didn't like the performance of the devices at the price points needed to penetrate the market, key apps (hi WhatsApp!) had announced they would not port , and Google responded in force with Android One. It took enormous amounts of resources from Firefox development. Looks to me like they committed as far as they could without bringing the entire company under. Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired. Mozilla Foundation people (i.e. not his employees) actually. But anyway, I hope this argument works for the president too.
      - flukus 10y ago
        > This doesn't "feel" like a very well substantiated argument either. It received little traction, users didn't like the performance of the devices at the price points needed to penetrate the market I had a toy firefox phone to play with that had potato level processing power. I was actually surprised by how smooth everything was, way better than android on way less hardware. Firefox seems to be the only browser optimized for portables.
BrendanEich 10y ago
> The millions they are getting from Google Yahoo! (being bought by Verizon, still in progress).

aaron-lebo 10y ago

They also can't stand still, so they invest in experiments and R&D, much like how companies are doing. Most of those experiments are failures naturally, so they tried Firefox OS and failed, they tried Persona and failed, but that's what experimenting is and without burning some money on that, you'll never build those projects that make a difference. There is a reason those failed (lack of focus or any long-term plans are one). Reading your message again, I don't understand what's your problem with Mozilla. And why is Mozilla under so much pressure on HN, whereas companies such as Apple and Google are getting a free pass? Is it because they are a non-profit Have we been reading the same HN? I think people are critical of Mozilla because they are one of the few groups trying to build an open web and their constant back and forth and closing down projects has had some real effects on progress. Also, the firing of Eich for political views will always be controversial.

gcp 10y ago
Isn't closing down projects (that don't seem to be succeeding and are taking resources) exactly evidence of focus? Eich wasn't fired. He quit because he felt Mozilla was put under too much pressure because of him. Ironic you should remark that given the point of the post you're replying to: he quit exactly because of the reason you are using as justification. I wonder what will happen when it leaks out the new CEO voted for Trump/Hillary.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  There are lots of people who believe that Persona, if properly integrated with browsers could have taken off. You can find old HN threads where people were begging them to do x y an z and it instead remained a neat but underutilized project. FirefoxOS? Either commit to it or don't, but the way it was rolled out and abandoned after a few years didn't feel especially strategic. Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired.
  - gcp 10y ago
    the way it was rolled out and abandoned after a few years didn't feel especially strategic This doesn't "feel" like a very well substantiated argument either. It received little traction, users didn't like the performance of the devices at the price points needed to penetrate the market, key apps (hi WhatsApp!) had announced they would not port , and Google responded in force with Android One. It took enormous amounts of resources from Firefox development. Looks to me like they committed as far as they could without bringing the entire company under. Ok, Eich wasn't fired, but he resigned because his own employees were calling for him to be fired. Mozilla Foundation people (i.e. not his employees) actually. But anyway, I hope this argument works for the president too.
    - flukus 10y ago
      > This doesn't "feel" like a very well substantiated argument either. It received little traction, users didn't like the performance of the devices at the price points needed to penetrate the market I had a toy firefox phone to play with that had potato level processing power. I was actually surprised by how smooth everything was, way better than android on way less hardware. Firefox seems to be the only browser optimized for portables.

BrendanEich 10y ago

> The millions they are getting from Google Yahoo! (being bought by Verizon, still in progress).