6 ms·

Especially if your government doesn't give you access to a therapist b/c your health care system is a bad joke or if you don't want to suffer side-effects due t

by benevol 10y ago

Especially if your government doesn't give you access to a therapist b/c your health care system is a bad joke or if you don't want to suffer side-effects due to anti-depressants, then do : 1. Mindful meditation [free] -> Daily practice (30+ minutes) John Kabat-Zinn [0] masters the link between science and meditation and has published very valuable books (including guided/audio meditation exercises) [1]. There are a couple of scientific studies which prove effectiveness [2] [3]. 2. LSD [$5-10/dose + $25/multi-use test kit] -> One-time experience (every 6 months max.) LSD however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it (minimum literature: "The psychedelic explorer's guide" by Fadiman). Also, order a test kit and test before you ingest. Certain "edge cases"/people should not try it and educating yourself about everything will allow you to decide if it's a good idea in your case or not. In addition, you may be able to access your spiritual dimension, which increases quality of life even further (it is less immediate with meditation). You may combine micro-dosing LSD with meditation for accessing the meditative state easier (it's quite a challenge for depressed people). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn [1] https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through_Depression_-_Guided_Meditation_Practices https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through... [2] http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to-a-better-brain http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to... [3] http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain-neuroscience http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain-neuros...

will_pseudonym 10y ago
Re:LSD, you are making medical claims and recommendations with zero stated medical background. Someone following your advice could become permanently psychologically disabled. Do not follow this person's advice on this subject. Talk to your actual doctor or licensed psychologist.
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  the thing is, doctor will never ever recommend you this, even if it would instantly and permanently fix you. there is simply no proper long term research into this thanx to US gov war on drugs and doctors play it safe so nobody would sue them. from personal experience - if all else is failing, do it with smaller doses first. it is a truly life-changing experience, even one time.
kbart 10y ago
Be careful using psychedelics while depressed, it can get even worse and you can have a very bad trip. At least don't do that alone and have somebody sober to watch over you. Personally, I've found small doses of LSD having better, longer lasting improvement and causing less side effects than antidepressants.
- Fnoord 10y ago
  > Personally, I've found small doses of LSD having better, longer lasting improvement and causing less side effects than antidepressants. The first time you take an anti depressant your doctor will not recommend you a full dose. The first time you take a stimulant your doctor will not recommend you a full dose. I know readers here sadly won't consult their doctor on LSD or marihuana. The first time you take LSD (or psilocybine mushroom, or marihuana), and the first time you take it within a long time, do not take a full dose. Example: the first time I used psilocybine mushrooms I used 5 gram (out of a full dosage of 30 gram). I almost fell asleep due to it, in bath, and almost drowned, had it not been for the fact I put the tub only half full. I had no sitter either (that was my first stupidity - always get a sitter; a sober, mature person who watches over you and who preferably is an expert on the drug). (Legal disclaimer: I used this drug when it was still legal in my country. It no longer is. I don't recommend breaking the law.) There are also much lighter drugs than either of these. Amanita muscaria (fly agaric), for example (the same still applies, small dosage first). However I don't recommend a random person to pluck this in the wild. You need to be trained in order to recognise them as there are deadly poisonous lookalikes luring.
stephengillie 10y ago
Having had a friend's girlfriend go into the hospital during a mindfulness meditation retreat last weekend, be careful. Meditation can be as psychologically powerful as a strong drug trip - done well it's immensely uplifting, but a bad trip is similarly damaging.
- wox 10y ago
  What condition was she sent to the hospital for? Like, totally psychiatric or were they fasting or something?
- hellofunk 10y ago
  I would shocked if meditation could cause a physical emergency. In all my readings and studies of meditation, this is the first I've ever heard of such a situation. Most likely, there was some other reason she had a medical emergency. I'd be curious what else they were doing at the retreat besides basic meditation.
  - Fnoord 10y ago
    It is quite plausible. Meditation can trigger a psychosis (or delirium). For most people, not likely (the likeliness is not akin to LSD which besides that a trip on LSD is akin to a [positive] psychosis), but it is possible and you hearing about it for the first time is not a valid way of assessing this likelihood. The likeliness is increased if the user is addicted to certain drugs, and quit cold turkey, without decreasing the dosage. This can for example happen with alcohol.
    - hellofunk 10y ago
      > It is quite plausible. If it really was "plausible" you'd expect professionals in the field to alert about this. I've heard nothing but positive encouragement from many healthcare providers about the benefits of meditation and not a one of them discussed the possibility of psychosis or delirium. Honestly, I just don't buy that it's a real problem or that meditation alone would cause serious issues. But I do know that many who do meditation often do other things as well, and those other things are typically much more of a concern.
tudorw 10y ago
LSD is not a predictable experience, practice 1) and you have the skills on tap, anytime, anyplace, forever :) Meditation is like exercise, you don't need to know why it works, or whether it is working, just do it !
- tudorw 10y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFeYFZVqTss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFeYFZVqTss
Theodores 10y ago
At the moment I am trying to help a workmate hang in there and get life back on track after a period of intense depression. I am not going to advise her to take LSD or to meditate, even if 'hipster' style with this 'mindful' nonsense. Normal people who have happy, functional lives do not meditate or take micro doses of LSD. With all drugs the underlying condition is important, with hallucinogenic substances that usually means the base mood - happy or sad - gets amplified. That means the risk of a bad trip. My workmate has tried coping with 'party drugs' but the comedown is horrible - more depression. I am doing well with my workmate, we do things like eating, walking, cycling and talking, i.e. doing stuff. For a laugh though I might tell her she needs LSD and minfulness bullshit.
- namaemuta 10y ago
  > Normal people who have happy, functional lives do not meditate or take micro doses of LSD. Normal people who don't have a cold don't need to take cough syrup. It's precisely because being depressed is an atypical state that you need to take special approaches to deal with it.
  - Theodores 10y ago
    As if cough syrup works anyway - any comparison between getting a cold virus and being depressed is a bit lame. Very poor.
    - namaemuta 10y ago
      Normal people who aren't ill don't need special treatments. Is it clearer now?
      - Theodores 10y ago
        Well... I believe depression is actually quite normal, everyone experiences depression (not to confused with sadness) at some stage or other. What is not normal is sitting in front of some app, taking micro doses of LSD and 'meditating' in some stereotyped new-age fake-hipster-American way. For normal depression for normal people it is possible to meditate without the LSD and the feigned posture. What you do is you go outside the front door and walk, ride a bike, go for a jog or go for a swim. Sure these normal activities do not have the pretence of the believe system that goes with mindful-LSD-taking but, for normal people with normal depression (including the suicidal thoughts), normal healthy activities can help too, e.g. a gentle stroll with no funny meds needed.
teamhappy 10y ago
Here's a bunch of free mindfulness meditations (guided) that don't come from the bay. They're basically re-recordings of Jon Kabat-Zinn's original tapes: https://health.ucsd.edu/SPECIALTIES/MINDFULNESS/PROGRAMS/MBSR/Pages/audio.aspx https://health.ucsd.edu/SPECIALTIES/MINDFULNESS/PROGRAMS/MBS... // Oh, and be very very careful with psychedelics of any kind ...
hellofunk 10y ago
I have extreme and opposite reactions to your two suggestions. Your point 1 is just great advice for all people. Your point 2 is a damaging recommendation for a large variety of reasons and I hope no one reading this takes it seriously.
Fnoord 10y ago
You seem to basically post the same when the topic of depression comes up. Multiple times this week. Can be easily verified by clicking on your name, and then comments. Our previous discussion on this is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13290295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13290295 I agree about mindfulness. However you provide no information on your LSD claim. There's no way one can "educate themselves about everything" on any subject this is CYA. There's no proof of a "spiritual dimension" this is not science; this is new age poppycocks rhetoric. I still recommend the things I recommended in my previous post (I recommend the reader to read it). Apart from yoga, as well as running, and sunlight (especially in the summer since you build up the vitamin D in the summer). For winter depression I would love to recommend a high lux light lamp, but I personally haven't read any good research wether this works or not or wether it is placebo effect.
- johnward 10y ago
  > this is not science; Didn't the war on drugs didn't put a damper on this? Although they seem to be finding medical uses MDMA now. I just wonder how many things we could be benefiting from that have been shelved because of prohibition. I use light therapy in the winter. It feels like it at least helps wake me up on those days when the midwest skies are nothing but grey. I don't know if there is any science behind it. I sit out side as much as I can the 3-6 months that it's decent out.
RUG3Y 10y ago
I think recommending LSD is a bad idea. If it works for you, great, but even the best doctors can't agree on what drugs are helpful most of the time. I have friends who have used LSD and other drugs in the past and have experienced many negative side effects.

by benevol 10y ago

will_pseudonym 10y ago

Re:LSD, you are making medical claims and recommendations with zero stated medical background. Someone following your advice could become permanently psychologically disabled. Do not follow this person's advice on this subject. Talk to your actual doctor or licensed psychologist.

saiya-jin 10y ago
the thing is, doctor will never ever recommend you this, even if it would instantly and permanently fix you. there is simply no proper long term research into this thanx to US gov war on drugs and doctors play it safe so nobody would sue them. from personal experience - if all else is failing, do it with smaller doses first. it is a truly life-changing experience, even one time.

kbart 10y ago

Be careful using psychedelics while depressed, it can get even worse and you can have a very bad trip. At least don't do that alone and have somebody sober to watch over you. Personally, I've found small doses of LSD having better, longer lasting improvement and causing less side effects than antidepressants.

Fnoord 10y ago
> Personally, I've found small doses of LSD having better, longer lasting improvement and causing less side effects than antidepressants. The first time you take an anti depressant your doctor will not recommend you a full dose. The first time you take a stimulant your doctor will not recommend you a full dose. I know readers here sadly won't consult their doctor on LSD or marihuana. The first time you take LSD (or psilocybine mushroom, or marihuana), and the first time you take it within a long time, do not take a full dose. Example: the first time I used psilocybine mushrooms I used 5 gram (out of a full dosage of 30 gram). I almost fell asleep due to it, in bath, and almost drowned, had it not been for the fact I put the tub only half full. I had no sitter either (that was my first stupidity - always get a sitter; a sober, mature person who watches over you and who preferably is an expert on the drug). (Legal disclaimer: I used this drug when it was still legal in my country. It no longer is. I don't recommend breaking the law.) There are also much lighter drugs than either of these. Amanita muscaria (fly agaric), for example (the same still applies, small dosage first). However I don't recommend a random person to pluck this in the wild. You need to be trained in order to recognise them as there are deadly poisonous lookalikes luring.

stephengillie 10y ago

Having had a friend's girlfriend go into the hospital during a mindfulness meditation retreat last weekend, be careful. Meditation can be as psychologically powerful as a strong drug trip - done well it's immensely uplifting, but a bad trip is similarly damaging.

wox 10y ago
What condition was she sent to the hospital for? Like, totally psychiatric or were they fasting or something?
hellofunk 10y ago
I would shocked if meditation could cause a physical emergency. In all my readings and studies of meditation, this is the first I've ever heard of such a situation. Most likely, there was some other reason she had a medical emergency. I'd be curious what else they were doing at the retreat besides basic meditation.
- Fnoord 10y ago
  It is quite plausible. Meditation can trigger a psychosis (or delirium). For most people, not likely (the likeliness is not akin to LSD which besides that a trip on LSD is akin to a [positive] psychosis), but it is possible and you hearing about it for the first time is not a valid way of assessing this likelihood. The likeliness is increased if the user is addicted to certain drugs, and quit cold turkey, without decreasing the dosage. This can for example happen with alcohol.
  - hellofunk 10y ago
    > It is quite plausible. If it really was "plausible" you'd expect professionals in the field to alert about this. I've heard nothing but positive encouragement from many healthcare providers about the benefits of meditation and not a one of them discussed the possibility of psychosis or delirium. Honestly, I just don't buy that it's a real problem or that meditation alone would cause serious issues. But I do know that many who do meditation often do other things as well, and those other things are typically much more of a concern.

tudorw 10y ago

LSD is not a predictable experience, practice 1) and you have the skills on tap, anytime, anyplace, forever :) Meditation is like exercise, you don't need to know why it works, or whether it is working, just do it !

tudorw 10y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFeYFZVqTss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFeYFZVqTss

Theodores 10y ago

At the moment I am trying to help a workmate hang in there and get life back on track after a period of intense depression. I am not going to advise her to take LSD or to meditate, even if 'hipster' style with this 'mindful' nonsense. Normal people who have happy, functional lives do not meditate or take micro doses of LSD. With all drugs the underlying condition is important, with hallucinogenic substances that usually means the base mood - happy or sad - gets amplified. That means the risk of a bad trip. My workmate has tried coping with 'party drugs' but the comedown is horrible - more depression. I am doing well with my workmate, we do things like eating, walking, cycling and talking, i.e. doing stuff. For a laugh though I might tell her she needs LSD and minfulness bullshit.

namaemuta 10y ago
> Normal people who have happy, functional lives do not meditate or take micro doses of LSD. Normal people who don't have a cold don't need to take cough syrup. It's precisely because being depressed is an atypical state that you need to take special approaches to deal with it.
- Theodores 10y ago
  As if cough syrup works anyway - any comparison between getting a cold virus and being depressed is a bit lame. Very poor.
  - namaemuta 10y ago
    Normal people who aren't ill don't need special treatments. Is it clearer now?
    - Theodores 10y ago
      Well... I believe depression is actually quite normal, everyone experiences depression (not to confused with sadness) at some stage or other. What is not normal is sitting in front of some app, taking micro doses of LSD and 'meditating' in some stereotyped new-age fake-hipster-American way. For normal depression for normal people it is possible to meditate without the LSD and the feigned posture. What you do is you go outside the front door and walk, ride a bike, go for a jog or go for a swim. Sure these normal activities do not have the pretence of the believe system that goes with mindful-LSD-taking but, for normal people with normal depression (including the suicidal thoughts), normal healthy activities can help too, e.g. a gentle stroll with no funny meds needed.

teamhappy 10y ago

Here's a bunch of free mindfulness meditations (guided) that don't come from the bay. They're basically re-recordings of Jon Kabat-Zinn's original tapes: https://health.ucsd.edu/SPECIALTIES/MINDFULNESS/PROGRAMS/MBSR/Pages/audio.aspx https://health.ucsd.edu/SPECIALTIES/MINDFULNESS/PROGRAMS/MBS... // Oh, and be very very careful with psychedelics of any kind ...

hellofunk 10y ago

I have extreme and opposite reactions to your two suggestions. Your point 1 is just great advice for all people. Your point 2 is a damaging recommendation for a large variety of reasons and I hope no one reading this takes it seriously.

Fnoord 10y ago

You seem to basically post the same when the topic of depression comes up. Multiple times this week. Can be easily verified by clicking on your name, and then comments. Our previous discussion on this is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13290295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13290295 I agree about mindfulness. However you provide no information on your LSD claim. There's no way one can "educate themselves about everything" on any subject this is CYA. There's no proof of a "spiritual dimension" this is not science; this is new age poppycocks rhetoric. I still recommend the things I recommended in my previous post (I recommend the reader to read it). Apart from yoga, as well as running, and sunlight (especially in the summer since you build up the vitamin D in the summer). For winter depression I would love to recommend a high lux light lamp, but I personally haven't read any good research wether this works or not or wether it is placebo effect.

johnward 10y ago
> this is not science; Didn't the war on drugs didn't put a damper on this? Although they seem to be finding medical uses MDMA now. I just wonder how many things we could be benefiting from that have been shelved because of prohibition. I use light therapy in the winter. It feels like it at least helps wake me up on those days when the midwest skies are nothing but grey. I don't know if there is any science behind it. I sit out side as much as I can the 3-6 months that it's decent out.

RUG3Y 10y ago

I think recommending LSD is a bad idea. If it works for you, great, but even the best doctors can't agree on what drugs are helpful most of the time. I have friends who have used LSD and other drugs in the past and have experienced many negative side effects.