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I disagree. Manning's intent and actions are far short of those of Snowden. Snowden leaked information on valid espionage programs and possibly gave Russia th

by iaw 10y ago

I disagree. Manning's intent and actions are far short of those of Snowden. Snowden leaked information on valid espionage programs and possibly gave Russia the keys to the castle when he fled the country. I used to think Snowden deserved a pardon, and had it only been about the warrantless wiretapping I would still feel that way, but he leaked a number of things that damaged US relations in ways that have been highly beneficial to Russia. I think Snowden is both a patriot and a traitor for what he did.

ryanlol 10y ago
>possibly gave Russia the keys to the castle when he fled the country Might as well claim that he possibly coordinated the 9/11 attacks. It's also possible that he's secretly really old and shot Kennedy. There hasn't been a shred of evidence presented supporting these claims, and if you're going to make the claim you should back it up somehow.
- iaw 10y ago
  For one, I don't appreciate your reductio ad absurdum[1] approach to discussion. Snowden would also have to be "secretly really old" to coordinate the 9/11 attacks and even then the claim is patently absurd. Snowden had a cache of encrypted intelligence data. Intelligence agencies are fully capable of cracking encryption when properly motivated (in some cases they've backdoored them preemptively). Ewen MacAskill, living in Europe and possessing the cache, would make a prime target for Russian intelligence. There is no proof that the Russians have his cache, but it's asinine to think that they don't given their overall espionage efforts. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
  - ionised 10y ago
    He handed off his entire cache of documents to journalists while he was in Hong Kong and before he reached Russia. He also didn't read every single one, the journalists were responsible for combing through most of the data to determine what to release and what to redact. So knowing those two things, you can't credibly claim he handed Russia anything. Whatever Russia has, they obtained from the newspapers just like the rest of us.

by iaw 10y ago

ryanlol 10y ago

>possibly gave Russia the keys to the castle when he fled the country Might as well claim that he possibly coordinated the 9/11 attacks. It's also possible that he's secretly really old and shot Kennedy. There hasn't been a shred of evidence presented supporting these claims, and if you're going to make the claim you should back it up somehow.

iaw 10y ago
For one, I don't appreciate your reductio ad absurdum[1] approach to discussion. Snowden would also have to be "secretly really old" to coordinate the 9/11 attacks and even then the claim is patently absurd. Snowden had a cache of encrypted intelligence data. Intelligence agencies are fully capable of cracking encryption when properly motivated (in some cases they've backdoored them preemptively). Ewen MacAskill, living in Europe and possessing the cache, would make a prime target for Russian intelligence. There is no proof that the Russians have his cache, but it's asinine to think that they don't given their overall espionage efforts. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
- ionised 10y ago
  He handed off his entire cache of documents to journalists while he was in Hong Kong and before he reached Russia. He also didn't read every single one, the journalists were responsible for combing through most of the data to determine what to release and what to redact. So knowing those two things, you can't credibly claim he handed Russia anything. Whatever Russia has, they obtained from the newspapers just like the rest of us.