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I ask this seriously and not cynically: What are you trying to achieve with these comments? Are you hoping to educate people? Are you trying to scold people for

I ask this seriously and not cynically: What are you trying to achieve with these comments? Are you hoping to educate people? Are you trying to scold people for not knowing better? The content of the article isn't about Manning's gender association, but your comments are only about that. I would suspect any downvotes are simply because it is off-topic..?

adrienne 10y ago
Even if you assume my comments are pointless pedantry - since when has pointless pedantry been uncommon or unwelcome on Hacker News? It is wrong to misgender people. It is unacceptable. Why is it somehow more terrible to point that out than it is to do it in the first place?
- kjbflsudfb 10y ago
  "Even if you assume my comments are pointless pedantry..." Where did I use those words? Responses like this make it hard for me to learn from the other person. Maybe you feel like we should all already know these things, but that simply is not reality. It is not always because the person is "transphobic", as you put it, but simply uneducated on a particular topic.
  - adrienne 10y ago
    I feel like by 2017 if someone hasn't become aware of trans issues it's because they're deliberately staying ignorant. I mean, this stuff is all over the news. Transgender people are constantly getting murdered and beaten, and people are even trying to prevent them from peeing in public bathrooms all the time. There are so many good resources about trans people online, and i expect a bunch of Smart and Rational and Educated people (like HN commenters collectively think they are) to actually fucking educate themselves.
    - akjainaj 10y ago
      No offence, but you really sound angered and I feel somehow responsible--different people have different political views about all issues (everything is politics, after all) and we have to live with that fact. You are not going to convince others by insulting them. Also, HN is not the place to try and convince anybody to think the way you do, because that leads to flamewars (if you have an opinion, you'll stick to it, no?), and guys here detest flamewars. Just my two cents, greetings.
      - grzm 10y ago
        To nitpick: s/guys here/HN members/ While guys can sometimes be understood to refer to a group of either sex, it's best not to generalize like this. I don't think that's a particularly political opinion.
      - adrienne 10y ago
        Yes, it's true that everything is politics! Misgendering people is transphobic politics! It shows a tremendous lack of respect for people and it's deeply offensive; that doesn't change because it's done in a "civil" tone.
        tropo 10y ago
        Roughly half the population of the USA disagrees with you. Not only that, but you show "a tremendous lack of respect for" them. Don't you think they might find that "deeply offensive"? You are so easily offended, yet you care not for the fact that you offend those on the other side of this issue. You are full of hatred for them. This is hypocrisy.
        adrienne 10y ago
        Respect for people's identity and humanity is not negotiable. Failing to live up to this standard is called "bigotry". The words "bigotry" and "transphobia" aren't identity labels, they're accurate descriptions of behavior. Respect for people's behavior is an entirely different matter from respect for people's identity, and people who act on their bigotry (by, for instance, misgendering trans people) aren't entitled to my respect. That is, in fact, not hypocrisy.
    - kjbflsudfb 10y ago
      And yet I see multiple HN commenters discussing this topic. It may not be how you would prefer it be discussed; however, this is how people become educated. I think the mistake here is to reply to civil comments in an uncivil way because you don't feel that they are appropriately aware of trans issues. I would think anyone who wants to help educate others on these issues would welcome such a discussion.
      - adrienne 10y ago
        Misgendering people is uncivil. It is insulting and dehumanizing. Why don't you start requiring civilty from your fellow HN commenters, rather than just me?
        uybiuubfdui 10y ago
        You come off as an extremely immature person.
        grzm 10y ago
        Please don't create accounts to take swipes at people.
- archemike_ 10y ago
  Actually, Chelsea may indeed have considered herself a he during the epoch of Bradley(we don't know and shouldn't proclaim) so by you in proclaiming that you can't use he for referring to bradley, may in fact be misgendering in of itself as you're proclaiming bradley should be referred to as "she" when for all we know Chelsea could rightfully so refer to Bradley epoch as "he". This would be misgendering.
  - adrienne 10y ago
    Except she has very clearly stated her preference in this regard, and that is trivial to discover. Why are you people so afraid to Google things?

adrienne 10y ago

Even if you assume my comments are pointless pedantry - since when has pointless pedantry been uncommon or unwelcome on Hacker News? It is wrong to misgender people. It is unacceptable. Why is it somehow more terrible to point that out than it is to do it in the first place?

kjbflsudfb 10y ago
"Even if you assume my comments are pointless pedantry..." Where did I use those words? Responses like this make it hard for me to learn from the other person. Maybe you feel like we should all already know these things, but that simply is not reality. It is not always because the person is "transphobic", as you put it, but simply uneducated on a particular topic.
- adrienne 10y ago
  I feel like by 2017 if someone hasn't become aware of trans issues it's because they're deliberately staying ignorant. I mean, this stuff is all over the news. Transgender people are constantly getting murdered and beaten, and people are even trying to prevent them from peeing in public bathrooms all the time. There are so many good resources about trans people online, and i expect a bunch of Smart and Rational and Educated people (like HN commenters collectively think they are) to actually fucking educate themselves.
  - akjainaj 10y ago
    No offence, but you really sound angered and I feel somehow responsible--different people have different political views about all issues (everything is politics, after all) and we have to live with that fact. You are not going to convince others by insulting them. Also, HN is not the place to try and convince anybody to think the way you do, because that leads to flamewars (if you have an opinion, you'll stick to it, no?), and guys here detest flamewars. Just my two cents, greetings.
    - grzm 10y ago
      To nitpick: s/guys here/HN members/ While guys can sometimes be understood to refer to a group of either sex, it's best not to generalize like this. I don't think that's a particularly political opinion.
    - adrienne 10y ago
      Yes, it's true that everything is politics! Misgendering people is transphobic politics! It shows a tremendous lack of respect for people and it's deeply offensive; that doesn't change because it's done in a "civil" tone.
      - tropo 10y ago
        Roughly half the population of the USA disagrees with you. Not only that, but you show "a tremendous lack of respect for" them. Don't you think they might find that "deeply offensive"? You are so easily offended, yet you care not for the fact that you offend those on the other side of this issue. You are full of hatred for them. This is hypocrisy.
        adrienne 10y ago
        Respect for people's identity and humanity is not negotiable. Failing to live up to this standard is called "bigotry". The words "bigotry" and "transphobia" aren't identity labels, they're accurate descriptions of behavior. Respect for people's behavior is an entirely different matter from respect for people's identity, and people who act on their bigotry (by, for instance, misgendering trans people) aren't entitled to my respect. That is, in fact, not hypocrisy.
  - kjbflsudfb 10y ago
    And yet I see multiple HN commenters discussing this topic. It may not be how you would prefer it be discussed; however, this is how people become educated. I think the mistake here is to reply to civil comments in an uncivil way because you don't feel that they are appropriately aware of trans issues. I would think anyone who wants to help educate others on these issues would welcome such a discussion.
    - adrienne 10y ago
      Misgendering people is uncivil. It is insulting and dehumanizing. Why don't you start requiring civilty from your fellow HN commenters, rather than just me?
      - uybiuubfdui 10y ago
        You come off as an extremely immature person.
        grzm 10y ago
        Please don't create accounts to take swipes at people.
archemike_ 10y ago
Actually, Chelsea may indeed have considered herself a he during the epoch of Bradley(we don't know and shouldn't proclaim) so by you in proclaiming that you can't use he for referring to bradley, may in fact be misgendering in of itself as you're proclaiming bradley should be referred to as "she" when for all we know Chelsea could rightfully so refer to Bradley epoch as "he". This would be misgendering.
- adrienne 10y ago
  Except she has very clearly stated her preference in this regard, and that is trivial to discover. Why are you people so afraid to Google things?