5 ms·

Manning is a woman; is there some reason you're calling her a "they"?

rabidrat 10y ago
"He" is the pronoun that was used in their past, "she" is the pronoun for the present. When we're talking about the past+present for this person, I think "they" is not unreasonable. At least, it's more reasonable than trying to call someone out for their pronoun usage when the discussion is about a much more serious topic.
- adrienne 10y ago
  No, the correct way to do this is to use the individual's pronouns. Please note that the AP and the NYT have basically adopted the GLAAD style guide on this issue: http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender The NYT correctly stated in the parent article, "Ms. Manning was still known as Bradley Manning when she deployed with her unit to Iraq in late 2009." See how that works? She was always a she, even though she was presenting as a man at the time.
  - rabidrat 10y ago
    > She was always a she, even though she was presenting as a man at the time. Sorry, I don't agree. Gender should not be retconned. Please do your activism in a different forum.
  - wtbob 10y ago
    > No, the correct way to do this is to use the individual's pronouns. No, the correct way to do this is to use the correct pronouns, at least in the third person. One might refer to someone who believes he is Napoleon to his face as 'Your Majesty,' in order not to cause mental distress, but one is under no compunction to refer to him in the third person as 'His Majesty.' Likewise, no-one is under any compunction to refer to a man who believes that he is a woman in the feminine third person (although, in languages which have gendered second persons, it might be kind to use it face-to-face, again in order to avoid mental distress).
    - KirinDave 10y ago
      Equivocation of all non-conforming gender identities as a mental malady to be treated is such a Victorian era christian philosophy. Highly religious, unscientific arguments are best taken to Gab where they will not be subject to scrutiny. Can I help you make an account?
- panic 10y ago
  Really, it's ok, you can call her "she"! It's not going to hurt you, and it'll help trans people everywhere feel a little less shitty reading this website.
hnbro 10y ago
does "they" imply a gender?
- KirinDave 10y ago
  It can imply a number of things, from agender people to people like me who can't really be bothered to explain it. Trans binary people enforce their gender identity quite strongly because they get so much "pushback" (a polite way of saying harassment and threats) from people. In this case "they" is tapping into that. If you think this is complicated, try calling a baptist a catholic and see what happens.

"He" is the pronoun that was used in their past, "she" is the pronoun for the present. When we're talking about the past+present for this person, I think "they" is not unreasonable. At least, it's more reasonable than trying to call someone out for their pronoun usage when the discussion is about a much more serious topic.

adrienne 10y ago
No, the correct way to do this is to use the individual's pronouns. Please note that the AP and the NYT have basically adopted the GLAAD style guide on this issue: http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender The NYT correctly stated in the parent article, "Ms. Manning was still known as Bradley Manning when she deployed with her unit to Iraq in late 2009." See how that works? She was always a she, even though she was presenting as a man at the time.
- rabidrat 10y ago
  > She was always a she, even though she was presenting as a man at the time. Sorry, I don't agree. Gender should not be retconned. Please do your activism in a different forum.
- wtbob 10y ago
  > No, the correct way to do this is to use the individual's pronouns. No, the correct way to do this is to use the correct pronouns, at least in the third person. One might refer to someone who believes he is Napoleon to his face as 'Your Majesty,' in order not to cause mental distress, but one is under no compunction to refer to him in the third person as 'His Majesty.' Likewise, no-one is under any compunction to refer to a man who believes that he is a woman in the feminine third person (although, in languages which have gendered second persons, it might be kind to use it face-to-face, again in order to avoid mental distress).
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    Equivocation of all non-conforming gender identities as a mental malady to be treated is such a Victorian era christian philosophy. Highly religious, unscientific arguments are best taken to Gab where they will not be subject to scrutiny. Can I help you make an account?
panic 10y ago
Really, it's ok, you can call her "she"! It's not going to hurt you, and it'll help trans people everywhere feel a little less shitty reading this website.

hnbro 10y ago

does "they" imply a gender?

KirinDave 10y ago
It can imply a number of things, from agender people to people like me who can't really be bothered to explain it. Trans binary people enforce their gender identity quite strongly because they get so much "pushback" (a polite way of saying harassment and threats) from people. In this case "they" is tapping into that. If you think this is complicated, try calling a baptist a catholic and see what happens.