5 ms·

Chelsea has publicly identified the preferred pronouns as "she/her/hers". [1] [1] http://www.glaad.org/blog/chelsea-mannings-name-and-pronouns-need-respect-not

by manarth 10y ago

Chelsea has publicly identified the preferred pronouns as "she/her/hers". [1] [1] http://www.glaad.org/blog/chelsea-mannings-name-and-pronouns-need-respect-not-clarification http://www.glaad.org/blog/chelsea-mannings-name-and-pronouns...

gnaritas 10y ago
So what? You can't expect people to know that, this whole preferred pronoun issue is nonsense; you do not have a right to tell other people which words they should use.
- manarth 10y ago
  You can't expect people to know that I shared the link, so that people who weren't aware of Chelsea's preferred pronouns, could learn which pronouns she preferred. this whole preferred pronoun issue is nonsense; you do not have a right to tell other people which words they should use. You're right to say that in general, I cannot control the words that people use, about me, or about others. But I do respect the choices that people make. If someone would prefer that I refer to them as "she" or "her", or "him" or "he", I will use that pronoun. And I would question: why would someone use an alternative pronoun, knowing that the person would prefer an alternative? Why would anyone choose to knowingly attack and hurt someone, purely for sake of labeling them with a pronoun that the person has identified as inappropriate? When someone has identified their preferred pronouns, it is entirely appropriate to use those pronouns, and it is inappropriate - even abusive - to deliberately choose to use an incorrect pronoun. I do state "deliberately choose to use", because there will inevitably be people who mistakenly use an incorrect pronoun, for lack of knowledge, but people who are aware of the correct pronouns and deliberately choose an incorrect pronoun are conducting a bullying, abusive attack, and should be stopped.
  - ForrestN 10y ago
    Yes. I would add that, at least in present cultural conditions, most people who are not cisgendered men or women are not treated well, are chronically misunderstood, and experience traumatic alienation from their surrounding culture, and even violence. Generally speaking we're not yet able to protect non-cis people nearly as well as we should. So in addition to the parent's clear and solid advice, please have some empathy. Respecting a person's wishes about referring to their identity can go a long way toward making them feel safe, and refusing to do so can add to a tremendous burden of pain.
  - gnaritas 10y ago
    > And I would question: why would someone use an alternative pronoun, knowing that the person would prefer an alternative? The answer is quite simple, we don't always keep track of other people's preferences even when we've been told them. > Why would anyone choose to knowingly attack and hurt someone, purely for sake of labeling them with a pronoun that the person has identified as inappropriate? Again, just because you had a piece of information, doesn't mean it immediately comes forth in your mind at the necessary time. It's hard enough remembering the preferences of your friends, let alone public figures who you've never met. No one here likely personally knows Manning, to expect people to remember the preferences of public figures they don't know is expecting too much. > When someone has identified their preferred pronouns, it is entirely appropriate to use those pronouns, and it is inappropriate - even abusive - to deliberately choose to use an incorrect pronoun. No, it is not. You are placing an unjustified exception on another persons memory of your preferences, this is never appropriate. > I do state "deliberately choose to use", because there will inevitably be people who mistakenly use an incorrect pronoun, for lack of knowledge, but people who are aware of the correct pronouns and deliberately choose an incorrect pronoun are conducting a bullying, abusive attack, and should be stopped. This is a false dichotomy that presumes perfect memory; just because you've been told something doesn't mean you're deliberately ignoring that information when you later use the incorrect pronoun. Some people don't know, but knowing doesn't mean you deliberately intended insult when you still use it wrong. We all know lots of things that don't come to us in the necessary moments, brains aren't computers, they're fuzzy. If your ability to cope depends on another persons choice of vocabulary, you're depending on the wrong things. Anyone who claims to be offended by "they" is someone playing victim, they're looking for reasons to be insulted. They/them is always appropriate in all cases for all genders, it's how we avoid having to remember everyone's personal preferences.

by manarth 10y ago

gnaritas 10y ago

So what? You can't expect people to know that, this whole preferred pronoun issue is nonsense; you do not have a right to tell other people which words they should use.

manarth 10y ago
You can't expect people to know that I shared the link, so that people who weren't aware of Chelsea's preferred pronouns, could learn which pronouns she preferred. this whole preferred pronoun issue is nonsense; you do not have a right to tell other people which words they should use. You're right to say that in general, I cannot control the words that people use, about me, or about others. But I do respect the choices that people make. If someone would prefer that I refer to them as "she" or "her", or "him" or "he", I will use that pronoun. And I would question: why would someone use an alternative pronoun, knowing that the person would prefer an alternative? Why would anyone choose to knowingly attack and hurt someone, purely for sake of labeling them with a pronoun that the person has identified as inappropriate? When someone has identified their preferred pronouns, it is entirely appropriate to use those pronouns, and it is inappropriate - even abusive - to deliberately choose to use an incorrect pronoun. I do state "deliberately choose to use", because there will inevitably be people who mistakenly use an incorrect pronoun, for lack of knowledge, but people who are aware of the correct pronouns and deliberately choose an incorrect pronoun are conducting a bullying, abusive attack, and should be stopped.
- ForrestN 10y ago
  Yes. I would add that, at least in present cultural conditions, most people who are not cisgendered men or women are not treated well, are chronically misunderstood, and experience traumatic alienation from their surrounding culture, and even violence. Generally speaking we're not yet able to protect non-cis people nearly as well as we should. So in addition to the parent's clear and solid advice, please have some empathy. Respecting a person's wishes about referring to their identity can go a long way toward making them feel safe, and refusing to do so can add to a tremendous burden of pain.
- gnaritas 10y ago
  > And I would question: why would someone use an alternative pronoun, knowing that the person would prefer an alternative? The answer is quite simple, we don't always keep track of other people's preferences even when we've been told them. > Why would anyone choose to knowingly attack and hurt someone, purely for sake of labeling them with a pronoun that the person has identified as inappropriate? Again, just because you had a piece of information, doesn't mean it immediately comes forth in your mind at the necessary time. It's hard enough remembering the preferences of your friends, let alone public figures who you've never met. No one here likely personally knows Manning, to expect people to remember the preferences of public figures they don't know is expecting too much. > When someone has identified their preferred pronouns, it is entirely appropriate to use those pronouns, and it is inappropriate - even abusive - to deliberately choose to use an incorrect pronoun. No, it is not. You are placing an unjustified exception on another persons memory of your preferences, this is never appropriate. > I do state "deliberately choose to use", because there will inevitably be people who mistakenly use an incorrect pronoun, for lack of knowledge, but people who are aware of the correct pronouns and deliberately choose an incorrect pronoun are conducting a bullying, abusive attack, and should be stopped. This is a false dichotomy that presumes perfect memory; just because you've been told something doesn't mean you're deliberately ignoring that information when you later use the incorrect pronoun. Some people don't know, but knowing doesn't mean you deliberately intended insult when you still use it wrong. We all know lots of things that don't come to us in the necessary moments, brains aren't computers, they're fuzzy. If your ability to cope depends on another persons choice of vocabulary, you're depending on the wrong things. Anyone who claims to be offended by "they" is someone playing victim, they're looking for reasons to be insulted. They/them is always appropriate in all cases for all genders, it's how we avoid having to remember everyone's personal preferences.