6 ms·

It's pretty sad that the question "Why are western women, particularly American women, so miserable?" is now a political question. (And therefore resists attemp

It's pretty sad that the question "Why are western women, particularly American women, so miserable?" is now a political question. (And therefore resists attempts to discuss it, which I don't recommend btw.)

rabboRubble 10y ago
Post pregnancy stresses include: * Hormone balance changes * Grey matter "pruning" * Lack of sleep * Lack of paid maternity leave * High medical bills for even a straightforward pregnancy * Lack of social support These are the ones I thought of without any effort. I'm sure there are more.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  Of these, points 4 and 5 are easily fixable by making these things free for everyone. Accordingly they have been fixed in basically all other first world countries than the US, and several developing countries as well (like India and South Africa). This is also reflected in infant mortality rates; of the 35 OECD countries, only Mexico, Chile, Turkey and Slovakia have worse infant mortality rates than the US. For some US states it's even worse, e.g. Alabama is worse than Lebanon, and Mississippi is on par with Botswana.
  - flubert 10y ago
    Here's one interesting article about the U.S. infant mortality rate compared with other countries: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/why-american-babies-die/381008/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/why-americ...
  - vixen99 10y ago
    And these statistics are especially shocking given that it's estimated that Britain (with very low child mortality; 5/1000 live births versus 2/1000 for Finland) is poorer than the poorest state in the US http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/25/britain-is-poorer-than-any-us-state-yes-even-mississippi/#2bfa49523fab http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/25/britain-i...
    - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
      I believe the British NHS system takes really good care of pregnant women and kids. We lived 6 months in the UK when my wife was expecting our second child, and we got free checkups with the local doctor, free ultrasounds etc., no questions asked, even though we were citizens of another European country and were not paying any taxes in Britain nor were we members of UK social security. (I was being paid in our home country, which is legally OK for short term stays).
      - jon-wood 10y ago
        The NHS is fantastic at dealing with pregnancy, children, and a "normal" post-pregnancy in mothers. Sadly its woefully inequipped to deal with postnatal depression, as my wife and I discovered after our son was born. My wife has a history of mental illness, which means the risk of postnatal depression was about 50/50 and everyone was meant to be aware of that. Despite that getting anything done eventually involved turning up at the emergency department and making it abundantly clear that someone was likely to die if nothing was done, we were incredibly fortunate to get one of the few hundred mother and baby unit beds in the country, and even more fortunate that it wasn't far from where my parents live meaning I could actually be involved day to day - in the same unit there were mothers whos partners had to make a 400 mile round trip to see them, because that's where the only free beds were. The care from the mother and baby unit was fantastic, I just wish the same care was accessible to everyone who needed it, rather than just the very worst cases.
  - golergka 10y ago
    Free? You suggest they would appear out of thin air? There's a reason why a lot of Americans want to repeal Obamacare: turns out, they don't want to pay for other people's "free" healthcare.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      Before Obamacare the US government was spending double (per capita) what the UK gov was. The US could spend less than it was spending and still have free care for all, and still have private insurance for those who want it.
    - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
      The reason lots of Americans want to repeal Obamacare is because their opinions are formed by listening to demagogues who have the interests of the 1% and of big businesses in mind, while playing the populist card of "lower taxes for everyone". Healthcare is no different from roads, schools, libraries etc.: everyone pays for other people using it, because otherwise you would have a crappy system. Taxing everyone to provide basic necessary services and infrastructure is the definition of society. Removing those taxes is the same as taking steps back to being uncivilised. I am not joking when I say the US has one of the most expensive (per capita) healthcare system in the world, while also one of the worst. I mean, really, Cuba scores better on most healthcare metrics! They're not exactly known for being a wealthy people, yet they can somehow all afford better healthcare than the average American. They even sent about twice as many health professionals (in absolute numbers) to aid West Africa during the Ebola crisis than what the US did. Twice as many, from a population less than that of Ohio alone.
- vkou 10y ago
  Also poverty. Most of these questions are highly political.
Retra 10y ago
Most questions about groups of people are political...
- mnglkhn2 10y ago
  That's the best way of not debating anything, if any question you ask becomes political.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    I don't understand this argument. Almost everything worth talking about has a "political" dimension, or it would be solved already. There's costs and tradeoffs, to whom should they be allocated? "Political" need not be the same as "partisan", although people are trying to make everything partisan these days.
up_so_floating 10y ago
Perhaps one reason could be changing gender norms.
codebolt 10y ago
Of course it's political. Western culture has moved away from glorifying the nuclear family as the ideal way of living, so generations are being brought thinking that having a family is not all that important. I believe that a lot of issues like this (with depressed and drugged out single moms, etc) could have been avoided if more people realized that having a tightly knit nuclear family is definitely worth striving for. And that a lot of the cultural changes over the past decades (the promotion of promiscuity and other forms of social liberalism) are not really progressive in terms of improving the quality of life within our society as a whole.
- pja 10y ago
  Or, alternatively, you could have a society that supports new mothers no matter what their marital status. Access to maternity leave would be a start. Making it so that women who found themselves in very difficult situations had access to abortion would probably help too. These are also political decisions of course.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
draw_down 10y ago
Well, what do you think politics is, exactly?
RugnirViking 10y ago
It's backed up by data to not only be women. Suicide statistics and such show this.

rabboRubble 10y ago

Post pregnancy stresses include: * Hormone balance changes * Grey matter "pruning" * Lack of sleep * Lack of paid maternity leave * High medical bills for even a straightforward pregnancy * Lack of social support These are the ones I thought of without any effort. I'm sure there are more.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
Of these, points 4 and 5 are easily fixable by making these things free for everyone. Accordingly they have been fixed in basically all other first world countries than the US, and several developing countries as well (like India and South Africa). This is also reflected in infant mortality rates; of the 35 OECD countries, only Mexico, Chile, Turkey and Slovakia have worse infant mortality rates than the US. For some US states it's even worse, e.g. Alabama is worse than Lebanon, and Mississippi is on par with Botswana.
- flubert 10y ago
  Here's one interesting article about the U.S. infant mortality rate compared with other countries: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/why-american-babies-die/381008/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/why-americ...
- vixen99 10y ago
  And these statistics are especially shocking given that it's estimated that Britain (with very low child mortality; 5/1000 live births versus 2/1000 for Finland) is poorer than the poorest state in the US http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/25/britain-is-poorer-than-any-us-state-yes-even-mississippi/#2bfa49523fab http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/25/britain-i...
  - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    I believe the British NHS system takes really good care of pregnant women and kids. We lived 6 months in the UK when my wife was expecting our second child, and we got free checkups with the local doctor, free ultrasounds etc., no questions asked, even though we were citizens of another European country and were not paying any taxes in Britain nor were we members of UK social security. (I was being paid in our home country, which is legally OK for short term stays).
    - jon-wood 10y ago
      The NHS is fantastic at dealing with pregnancy, children, and a "normal" post-pregnancy in mothers. Sadly its woefully inequipped to deal with postnatal depression, as my wife and I discovered after our son was born. My wife has a history of mental illness, which means the risk of postnatal depression was about 50/50 and everyone was meant to be aware of that. Despite that getting anything done eventually involved turning up at the emergency department and making it abundantly clear that someone was likely to die if nothing was done, we were incredibly fortunate to get one of the few hundred mother and baby unit beds in the country, and even more fortunate that it wasn't far from where my parents live meaning I could actually be involved day to day - in the same unit there were mothers whos partners had to make a 400 mile round trip to see them, because that's where the only free beds were. The care from the mother and baby unit was fantastic, I just wish the same care was accessible to everyone who needed it, rather than just the very worst cases.
- golergka 10y ago
  Free? You suggest they would appear out of thin air? There's a reason why a lot of Americans want to repeal Obamacare: turns out, they don't want to pay for other people's "free" healthcare.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Before Obamacare the US government was spending double (per capita) what the UK gov was. The US could spend less than it was spending and still have free care for all, and still have private insurance for those who want it.
  - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    The reason lots of Americans want to repeal Obamacare is because their opinions are formed by listening to demagogues who have the interests of the 1% and of big businesses in mind, while playing the populist card of "lower taxes for everyone". Healthcare is no different from roads, schools, libraries etc.: everyone pays for other people using it, because otherwise you would have a crappy system. Taxing everyone to provide basic necessary services and infrastructure is the definition of society. Removing those taxes is the same as taking steps back to being uncivilised. I am not joking when I say the US has one of the most expensive (per capita) healthcare system in the world, while also one of the worst. I mean, really, Cuba scores better on most healthcare metrics! They're not exactly known for being a wealthy people, yet they can somehow all afford better healthcare than the average American. They even sent about twice as many health professionals (in absolute numbers) to aid West Africa during the Ebola crisis than what the US did. Twice as many, from a population less than that of Ohio alone.
vkou 10y ago
Also poverty. Most of these questions are highly political.

Retra 10y ago

Most questions about groups of people are political...

mnglkhn2 10y ago
That's the best way of not debating anything, if any question you ask becomes political.
- pjc50 10y ago
  I don't understand this argument. Almost everything worth talking about has a "political" dimension, or it would be solved already. There's costs and tradeoffs, to whom should they be allocated? "Political" need not be the same as "partisan", although people are trying to make everything partisan these days.

up_so_floating 10y ago

Perhaps one reason could be changing gender norms.

codebolt 10y ago

Of course it's political. Western culture has moved away from glorifying the nuclear family as the ideal way of living, so generations are being brought thinking that having a family is not all that important. I believe that a lot of issues like this (with depressed and drugged out single moms, etc) could have been avoided if more people realized that having a tightly knit nuclear family is definitely worth striving for. And that a lot of the cultural changes over the past decades (the promotion of promiscuity and other forms of social liberalism) are not really progressive in terms of improving the quality of life within our society as a whole.

pja 10y ago
Or, alternatively, you could have a society that supports new mothers no matter what their marital status. Access to maternity leave would be a start. Making it so that women who found themselves in very difficult situations had access to abortion would probably help too. These are also political decisions of course.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

draw_down 10y ago

Well, what do you think politics is, exactly?

RugnirViking 10y ago

It's backed up by data to not only be women. Suicide statistics and such show this.