4 ms·

A misguided and confusing appeal based on misconceptions and untruths. For example, the author suggests that separation of content from presentation using HTML

by davnola 16y ago

A misguided and confusing appeal based on misconceptions and untruths. For example, the author suggests that separation of content from presentation using HTML and CSS is not possible because the tag is presentational. On the contrary, emphasis is a semantic (in this instance). The author claims HTML5 will take 12 years to become "fully adopted" when in fact it will be finalized in 2012 and actual production usage is exploding in growth. HTML5 is apparently no good because it only adds "just a few tags". HTML, CSS, and JS are best conceptualized as content, presentation, and behaviour, but the author attempts to fit them together as model, view, and controller. JavaScript is, the author says, a "half-baked toy language that does not scale well" that can never be improved because it is served as source-code to the browser [?] and new versions must be backwards-compatible. Yes, backwards-compatibility slows adoption of updated standards. But, the suggested replacement is a "package-based" system (whatever that is) that can be "text or binary". How does that solve the problem? [Edit: typo]

megaman821 16y ago
"""For example, the author suggests that separation of content from presentation using HTML and CSS is not possible because the tag is presentational. On the contrary, emphasis is a semantic (in this instance).""" That's the point where I said this guy is an idiot. What exactly does emphasis look like? Bold and Italic are presentational, whereas and are semantic. There is a kernel of truth in there as I often wish CSS let arrange elements independent of the order they appear in the HTML doc.
- ewjordan 16y ago
 There is a kernel of truth in there as I often wish CSS let arrange elements independent of the order they appear in the HTML doc. ...and that type of thing is probably the source of most of the discomfort that the author feels with the way browser separation of duties happens, even if he didn't express it very well: as general-purpose view frameworks go, CSS is an extraordinarily shitty specimen, completely unsuitable for many tasks - every time you've ever had to alter a line of HTML to make your layout work correctly, you've been staring straight at the heart of what is wrong with CSS. Many things that should be handled exclusively within view code (and would be in a sane project) end up leaking into many other parts of the system. And that's even before you start dealing with browser incompatibilities. I'm not sure that there's any solution, though - yes, we all know it's a terrible setup, but none of us can do anything about it at this point, so we turn to libraries that try to shield us from the complexity. C'est la vie, this is what happens when things evolve naturally under changing needs over a long time...

by davnola 16y ago

megaman821 16y ago

"""For example, the author suggests that separation of content from presentation using HTML and CSS is not possible because the tag is presentational. On the contrary, emphasis is a semantic (in this instance).""" That's the point where I said this guy is an idiot. What exactly does emphasis look like? Bold and Italic are presentational, whereas and are semantic. There is a kernel of truth in there as I often wish CSS let arrange elements independent of the order they appear in the HTML doc.

ewjordan 16y ago
There is a kernel of truth in there as I often wish CSS let arrange elements independent of the order they appear in the HTML doc. ...and that type of thing is probably the source of most of the discomfort that the author feels with the way browser separation of duties happens, even if he didn't express it very well: as general-purpose view frameworks go, CSS is an extraordinarily shitty specimen, completely unsuitable for many tasks - every time you've ever had to alter a line of HTML to make your layout work correctly, you've been staring straight at the heart of what is wrong with CSS. Many things that should be handled exclusively within view code (and would be in a sane project) end up leaking into many other parts of the system. And that's even before you start dealing with browser incompatibilities. I'm not sure that there's any solution, though - yes, we all know it's a terrible setup, but none of us can do anything about it at this point, so we turn to libraries that try to shield us from the complexity. C'est la vie, this is what happens when things evolve naturally under changing needs over a long time...