4 ms·

I don't think that's a fair assessment of the situation. Yes, there was a referendum – but it wasn't a good one. It was advisory only – i.e. not binding – ther

I don't think that's a fair assessment of the situation. Yes, there was a referendum – but it wasn't a good one. It was advisory only – i.e. not binding – there was a narrow margin, no minimum turnout or majority requirements, and no concrete plan which was being voted on, or even any set of proposals from government. Two of the four countries in the UK voted to remain in the EU. It think it's wholly reasonable to question a decision of such huge magnitude being made on the basis of a referendum in those circumstances.

raesene6 10y ago
However the majority of the people who voted (and remember here that the turnout was higher than most UK elections) voted to exit which clearly included border controls. Border controls cannot be achieved without leaving the single market, so if we're honouring the democratic process this is the only possible path.
- gpderetta 10y ago
  The was no reference to border control in the referendum ballot.
  - raesene6 10y ago
    it was a key stated pledge of the leave campaign, so unless you were watching some other referendum campaign the suggestion that border control had nothing to do with it is disingenuous at best. In case anyone wants to argue that immigration wasn't a key part of the leave campaign... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/eu-referendum-reality-check-leave-campaign-promises https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/eu-referend... a key pledge related to immigration directly and another was closely associated
    - Chestofdraw 10y ago
      > it was a key stated pledge of the leave campaign Which leave campaign? There was a few of them and they didn't give a consistent message. None actually have any power to implement anything so how can they make pledges anyway? Also, that link has the picture of the bus as the first image... a 'pledge' completely based on lies that was dropped literally minutes after the vote.
      - raesene6 10y ago
        Let me ask you a question. Do you honestly believe that a big part (if not the key part) of the leave campaign (pick any one you like) wasn't about immigration and border control?
        Chestofdraw 10y ago
        I'll tell you what, we can talk about the efficacy of the various leave campaigns when the NHS gets its 350 million a day and we have 'Sovereignty'.
        raesene6 10y ago
        I note that I'm afraid you didn't even attempt to answer my extremely straightforward question. See I'm not a brexiter/leaver/whatever (Personally I think it's a terrible idea), but it's blindingly obvious to me that a lot of leave voters (maybe even the vast majority) thought the main issue was immigration and that Mrs May had a choice either exit the single market, or basically ignore the result of the referendum, she chose the former and not the latter.
        gpderetta 10y ago
        Soft brexit (i.e. EEA-like access) plus spend the next 10 years figuring out a better exit deal would have been an option. UK spent 40 year entangling with the EU, disentangling cleanly in 2 years is a pipe dream. It is still a possibility though; declaring for hard brexit could very well be a negotiating tactic (as in 'nothing left to lose') as May hinted to the possibility of a transitional agreement.
    - gpderetta 10y ago
      Is it the same article that claims that the leave campaign also promised access to the single market and that reports that the foreign secretary declared that 'the leave campaign had made “contradictory” and “mutually incompatible” promises to the British people'?
      - raesene6 10y ago
        Let me ask you a question. Do you honestly believe that a big part (if not the key part) of the leave campaign (pick any one you like) wasn't about immigration and border control?

raesene6 10y ago

However the majority of the people who voted (and remember here that the turnout was higher than most UK elections) voted to exit which clearly included border controls. Border controls cannot be achieved without leaving the single market, so if we're honouring the democratic process this is the only possible path.

gpderetta 10y ago
The was no reference to border control in the referendum ballot.
- raesene6 10y ago
  it was a key stated pledge of the leave campaign, so unless you were watching some other referendum campaign the suggestion that border control had nothing to do with it is disingenuous at best. In case anyone wants to argue that immigration wasn't a key part of the leave campaign... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/eu-referendum-reality-check-leave-campaign-promises https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/eu-referend... a key pledge related to immigration directly and another was closely associated
  - Chestofdraw 10y ago
    > it was a key stated pledge of the leave campaign Which leave campaign? There was a few of them and they didn't give a consistent message. None actually have any power to implement anything so how can they make pledges anyway? Also, that link has the picture of the bus as the first image... a 'pledge' completely based on lies that was dropped literally minutes after the vote.
    - raesene6 10y ago
      Let me ask you a question. Do you honestly believe that a big part (if not the key part) of the leave campaign (pick any one you like) wasn't about immigration and border control?
      - Chestofdraw 10y ago
        I'll tell you what, we can talk about the efficacy of the various leave campaigns when the NHS gets its 350 million a day and we have 'Sovereignty'.
        raesene6 10y ago
        I note that I'm afraid you didn't even attempt to answer my extremely straightforward question. See I'm not a brexiter/leaver/whatever (Personally I think it's a terrible idea), but it's blindingly obvious to me that a lot of leave voters (maybe even the vast majority) thought the main issue was immigration and that Mrs May had a choice either exit the single market, or basically ignore the result of the referendum, she chose the former and not the latter.
        gpderetta 10y ago
        Soft brexit (i.e. EEA-like access) plus spend the next 10 years figuring out a better exit deal would have been an option. UK spent 40 year entangling with the EU, disentangling cleanly in 2 years is a pipe dream. It is still a possibility though; declaring for hard brexit could very well be a negotiating tactic (as in 'nothing left to lose') as May hinted to the possibility of a transitional agreement.
  - gpderetta 10y ago
    Is it the same article that claims that the leave campaign also promised access to the single market and that reports that the foreign secretary declared that 'the leave campaign had made “contradictory” and “mutually incompatible” promises to the British people'?
    - raesene6 10y ago
      Let me ask you a question. Do you honestly believe that a big part (if not the key part) of the leave campaign (pick any one you like) wasn't about immigration and border control?