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I couldn't agree more, and I wonder why you're being downvoted so hard. Particularly given that 52% of the voters voted for Leave, not for a hard Brexit. Those

I couldn't agree more, and I wonder why you're being downvoted so hard. Particularly given that 52% of the voters voted for Leave, not for a hard Brexit. Those are two very different propositions and a significant chunk of the 52% didn't want a hard Brexit.

dazc 10y ago
How did you arrive at this conclusion other than pure conjecture? The in-out vote was a binary choice, as I remember?
- headmelted 10y ago
  It's a less radical conclusion to assume that of the 52% of the leave voters there were at least some who didn't intend for this hard of a split, versus assuming that every last voter did. Also, you and I both know very well a lot of people that voted had no clue what it meant to leave. Or in some cases, what the EU even is, frighteningly.
- cannam 10y ago
  No idea what individual voters thought they were voting for, but it's worth remembering that the official Leave campaign said that the UK would be staying in the free-trade zone. That may be impossible to reconcile with the other things they said, but there it is. (Source: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/our_case.html http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/our_case.html - "There is a free trade zone from Iceland to Turkey and the Russian border and we will be part of it")
- thenomad 10y ago
  There were polls before and after the event on exactly this question, as well as considerable discussion of the Leave options from Leave campaigners and the press. So I conclude what I originally said from those data points.
raesene6 10y ago
I would suggest that a large percentage of that 52% voted based on "control the borders" rhetoric. That (AFAIK) cannot be delivered while remaining in the single market, so the UK government is taking the only possible path to satisfy that requirement which was voted for by the UK population in a referendum... Now I'd agree that if you actually spelled out the reality of "hard brexit" people might be given pause and really they should have listened to "project fear" as it was dubbed by the brexit crew, but the fact remains that the brexit campaign was on border control and to deliver this the UK has to leave the single market
- gpderetta 10y ago
  > I would suggest that a large percentage of that 52% voted based on "control the borders" rhetoric. are you suggesting that (as long as that percentage is less than 95%) the majority of total voters were against 'border control?'
  - raesene6 10y ago
    no as should be clear I'm suggesting that the government is implementing one of the key elements of the leave campaign, which the UK voted in favour of. To deliver that, the UK has to leave the single market.
Lio 10y ago
Whilst I sympathise with the sentiment of parent, I believe the downvotes are for failing to understand how mandate works in our parliamentary democracy. We, the voting public in the UK, never vote directly elect our government. We give a mandate to our local MP and then they decide who forms the government. Further, we vote for our local MP knowing ahead of time that they could change who they decide will form the government at anytime before the next general election. Even if we don't like the current government, they do have a democratic mandate.

dazc 10y ago

How did you arrive at this conclusion other than pure conjecture? The in-out vote was a binary choice, as I remember?

headmelted 10y ago
It's a less radical conclusion to assume that of the 52% of the leave voters there were at least some who didn't intend for this hard of a split, versus assuming that every last voter did. Also, you and I both know very well a lot of people that voted had no clue what it meant to leave. Or in some cases, what the EU even is, frighteningly.
cannam 10y ago
No idea what individual voters thought they were voting for, but it's worth remembering that the official Leave campaign said that the UK would be staying in the free-trade zone. That may be impossible to reconcile with the other things they said, but there it is. (Source: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/our_case.html http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/our_case.html - "There is a free trade zone from Iceland to Turkey and the Russian border and we will be part of it")
thenomad 10y ago
There were polls before and after the event on exactly this question, as well as considerable discussion of the Leave options from Leave campaigners and the press. So I conclude what I originally said from those data points.

raesene6 10y ago

I would suggest that a large percentage of that 52% voted based on "control the borders" rhetoric. That (AFAIK) cannot be delivered while remaining in the single market, so the UK government is taking the only possible path to satisfy that requirement which was voted for by the UK population in a referendum... Now I'd agree that if you actually spelled out the reality of "hard brexit" people might be given pause and really they should have listened to "project fear" as it was dubbed by the brexit crew, but the fact remains that the brexit campaign was on border control and to deliver this the UK has to leave the single market

gpderetta 10y ago
> I would suggest that a large percentage of that 52% voted based on "control the borders" rhetoric. are you suggesting that (as long as that percentage is less than 95%) the majority of total voters were against 'border control?'
- raesene6 10y ago
  no as should be clear I'm suggesting that the government is implementing one of the key elements of the leave campaign, which the UK voted in favour of. To deliver that, the UK has to leave the single market.

Lio 10y ago

Whilst I sympathise with the sentiment of parent, I believe the downvotes are for failing to understand how mandate works in our parliamentary democracy. We, the voting public in the UK, never vote directly elect our government. We give a mandate to our local MP and then they decide who forms the government. Further, we vote for our local MP knowing ahead of time that they could change who they decide will form the government at anytime before the next general election. Even if we don't like the current government, they do have a democratic mandate.