4 ms·

I think you are applying your own values to the population as a whole. Depending on ones ethnicity, social class, and other variables, one may, as a Swede, valu

by sebcat 10y ago

I think you are applying your own values to the population as a whole. Depending on ones ethnicity, social class, and other variables, one may, as a Swede, value family or community over the individual.

kalleboo 10y ago
There is certainly variation, but a lot of the broad social policies betray a bias toward individualism. For instance one of the goals of the "million programme" to build enough homes so that you didn't have man generations living under the same roof. I live in Japan now, and while it's seen as a collective society, it's clear so much more of left to families to deal with themselves rather than society as a whole. Sweden has broader social programs and is more individualistic, and Japan has weaker social programs and is more communal. It shows how the US one dimensional view of left/right isnt all there is to it.
JohnStrange 10y ago
What you say is a truism, of course. But more specifically, the overt stance towards values across different cultures is one of the best researched topics in the social sciences. For example, you can download data from http://www.europeansocialsurvey.org/ http://www.europeansocialsurvey.org/ and http://www.europeanvaluesstudy.eu/ http://www.europeanvaluesstudy.eu/, and http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org and these are just the top links from Google when you look for value surveys. This kind of data is based on surveys with all the caveats these come with. (People do not necessarily report what they really think in surveys.) I believe Ronald Inglehart was one of the first to start with extensive empirical surveys of this sort. Nowadays they are conducted world-wide by vast number of organizations and there are also yearly summary publications in book format. I was admittedly too lazy to check the values in Sweden vs elsewhere, just wanted to add to your comment that what values people endorse (or at least overtly report to endorse) in various countries and regions of the world is not unknown at all and it is not hard to look up data from reputable sources. How people act upon the values they report (if at all), is a different matter, of course.
OskarS 10y ago
I'm speaking in aggregates, certainly, different people will have different values. But the idea is generally true, and it is backed by studies measuring values. In addition, this was an explicitly stated goal in the creation of the Swedish welfare state. The Social Democratic "philosophy" underlying it goes by the name of "Folkhemmet"[1], "the people's home". The idea is that in order to progress to a more modern economy, the state should take over the more traditional support systems previously provided by family/community/religion/etc. when it comes to things like healthcare, education and taking care of the poor. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
- sebcat 10y ago
  I guess my problem is with your use of terms like "the Swedish mindset", or "we [Swedes] believe". You are generalizing a lot. Folkhemmet has German roots (Volksgemeinschaft) and can be traced back to the ideas of Bismarck[1]. It was a social reform. One can compare it to FDRs "New Deal". It is in this context it makes sense. It does not make sense to explain what "we [Swedes] believe" or "the Swedish mindset". You're basically equating social democratic policy from 1930-1970(ish) with being Swedish. There are a lot of people living in Sweden who do not subscribe to these ideas (myself included). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Social_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Social_legis...

by sebcat 10y ago

kalleboo 10y ago

There is certainly variation, but a lot of the broad social policies betray a bias toward individualism. For instance one of the goals of the "million programme" to build enough homes so that you didn't have man generations living under the same roof. I live in Japan now, and while it's seen as a collective society, it's clear so much more of left to families to deal with themselves rather than society as a whole. Sweden has broader social programs and is more individualistic, and Japan has weaker social programs and is more communal. It shows how the US one dimensional view of left/right isnt all there is to it.

JohnStrange 10y ago

What you say is a truism, of course. But more specifically, the overt stance towards values across different cultures is one of the best researched topics in the social sciences. For example, you can download data from http://www.europeansocialsurvey.org/ http://www.europeansocialsurvey.org/ and http://www.europeanvaluesstudy.eu/ http://www.europeanvaluesstudy.eu/, and http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org and these are just the top links from Google when you look for value surveys. This kind of data is based on surveys with all the caveats these come with. (People do not necessarily report what they really think in surveys.) I believe Ronald Inglehart was one of the first to start with extensive empirical surveys of this sort. Nowadays they are conducted world-wide by vast number of organizations and there are also yearly summary publications in book format. I was admittedly too lazy to check the values in Sweden vs elsewhere, just wanted to add to your comment that what values people endorse (or at least overtly report to endorse) in various countries and regions of the world is not unknown at all and it is not hard to look up data from reputable sources. How people act upon the values they report (if at all), is a different matter, of course.

OskarS 10y ago

I'm speaking in aggregates, certainly, different people will have different values. But the idea is generally true, and it is backed by studies measuring values. In addition, this was an explicitly stated goal in the creation of the Swedish welfare state. The Social Democratic "philosophy" underlying it goes by the name of "Folkhemmet"[1], "the people's home". The idea is that in order to progress to a more modern economy, the state should take over the more traditional support systems previously provided by family/community/religion/etc. when it comes to things like healthcare, education and taking care of the poor. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet

sebcat 10y ago
I guess my problem is with your use of terms like "the Swedish mindset", or "we [Swedes] believe". You are generalizing a lot. Folkhemmet has German roots (Volksgemeinschaft) and can be traced back to the ideas of Bismarck[1]. It was a social reform. One can compare it to FDRs "New Deal". It is in this context it makes sense. It does not make sense to explain what "we [Swedes] believe" or "the Swedish mindset". You're basically equating social democratic policy from 1930-1970(ish) with being Swedish. There are a lot of people living in Sweden who do not subscribe to these ideas (myself included). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Social_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Social_legis...