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>Despite what you may have heard, the Amish aren’t against technology. Communities adopt new gadgets such as fax machines and business-use cellphones all the ti

by altendo 10y ago

>Despite what you may have heard, the Amish aren’t against technology. Communities adopt new gadgets such as fax machines and business-use cellphones all the time—as long as the local church approves each one ahead of time, determining that it won’t drastically change their way of life. This alone is the most interesting point of the article. People not belonging to the community, like myself, have a fixed preconceived notion of what it's like to be Amish. I still don't know much about Amish life and culture, but it's fascinating to see where my assumptions are wrong (and what else I may be wrong about!)

Terribledactyl 10y ago
I find it's also easy to fall into the trap of attributing more cohesion than there is and simplifying all of the groups into some sort of average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish#Use_of_technology_by_different_Amish_affiliations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish#Use_of_technology_by_dif...
- avar 10y ago
  There's some really interesting inconsistencies in that table. E.g. some think tractors for fieldwork aren't OK but lawnmowers are, for others somehow chainsaws are bad but washing machines are fine etc. Looking these over there doesn't seem to be any clear pattern to me. The grandparent mentioned them not wanting things that will "drastically change their way of life", surely having a washing machine is a bigger change to your life than having a chainsaw, even if you're a farmer.
  - vic-traill 10y ago
    >surely having a washing machine is a bigger change to your life than having a chainsaw The relative effect of these devices varies by location. This assessment might be true in Southern CA, but if you're heating your domicile using wood in Northern Ontario that chainsaw is looking pretty good!
  - jfoutz 10y ago
    a washing machine, with little parts that can be replaced with wood or metal, seems like the kind of thing that can be kept in good working order for a long time. I'd be leery of a chainsaw with handmade parts. I also kind of wonder about lubricants and fuel in a chainsaw, how hard is it to safely duplicate those oils?
  - ruraljuror 10y ago
    In the movie The Devil's Playground there is a discussion about how the Amish adopt technology. If I remember correctly, the criteria was based on whether the technology was disruptive to the community (i.e. how it affects the relations between people rather than an individual's day-to-day life). It's been more than ten years since I've seen the movie and I'm going on memory, but that made a big impression on me.
tzs 10y ago
You might enjoy the article "Amish Hackers" [1], which looks in more detail at the Amish approach to technology. It has been discussed a few times here on HN [2]. [1] http://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ http://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Amish%20Hackers&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Amish%20Hackers&sort=byDate&da...
snarf21 10y ago
There are lots of different sects with different rules. Also, there are lots of them that have generators creating electricity but they unplug it if the church elders come for a visit.
fuhrysteve 10y ago
In the area I grew up, inflated rubber tires and bicycles were not allowed, but wooden tires on scooters were fine. Reason being, inflated tires made it too easy to travel far from home, which was generally discouraged. So many people I grew up with seemed to think that Amish were being hypocritical by paying for taxi drivers to drive them around. That's an over-simplistic view. To an Amish community, taxi fees are a tariff intended to encourage finding a job close to home - or if at all possible - in your backyard. The ideal Amish are taught to strive for and desire is to have a farm and provide for your family with your hands. Here is a great documentary about an Amish couple that gave the rare opportunity to be filmed and interviewed. It's not about the Amish that I grew up with, however their flavor of Amishness is philosophically equivalent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtNXvE_rLoE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtNXvE_rLoE
- jacobheric 10y ago
  Thanks for the link. Great documentary. I just watched that with my kids. We were absolutely mesmerized by the earnestness and openness of the family profiled.
- tempestn 10y ago
  Normally I wouldn't make an off-topic comment on region locking, but the irony of this one amused me (emphasis mine): This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    BBC worldwide is the commercial arm of the BBC, responsible for licensing TV programmes abroad.
drakenot 10y ago
You should see some videos of Amish woodworking shops. They have every tool that a modern woodworking shop would have: table saw, bandsaw, drill press, rotary sanders, etc. Except they are all air powered. They have all been rigged to run off pressurized air lines. The air is produced by a gas generator.
- tenminuteslater 10y ago
  This would seem to be a classic example of a distinction without a difference.
  - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
    Air tools are far more field serviceable than electrical ones. Furthermore, if your gas engine dies you can fairly quickly rig up something with a horse and a treadmill to spin the compressor.
  - ticviking 10y ago
    It has to do with wanting something they can in principal maintain forever without outside help.
    - evgen 10y ago
      They make many pressure rated air hoses in those communities? Didn't think so. As previous poster noted, it is all effectively arbitrary window dressing.
      - lostboys67 10y ago
        If it where the case they should be using belt drive driven by wind/horse power - until fairly recently mech eng techs in the uk where taught how to design belt drive systems
        evgen 10y ago
        Belt drives are far more limited and attached tools are not mobile in any way whatsoever. Not even close when it comes to substitution technology.
edblarney 10y ago
Every community seems to be different. Different sets of rules. In the town where I grew up there are Mennonites, and now more Amish people. Apparently - the reason they don't use electricity from the grid, is because it's possibly made on 'Sunday' - ergo - they can't use it. They all have generators to make electricity for their barns, equipment etc.. No electricity to the houses though.
larsiusprime 10y ago
I don't have the citation handy, but one fun fact is that this has basically shaken out by "natural selection" if you will - there used to be Amish communities that were fine with modern travel and personal ownership of cars... but all such Amish communities basically disintegrated into the larger culture. The ones that are left are the ones that picked technology policies that allowed them to absorb benefits from modern technology without fundamentally disrupting their culture.

by altendo 10y ago

Terribledactyl 10y ago

I find it's also easy to fall into the trap of attributing more cohesion than there is and simplifying all of the groups into some sort of average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish#Use_of_technology_by_different_Amish_affiliations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish#Use_of_technology_by_dif...

avar 10y ago
There's some really interesting inconsistencies in that table. E.g. some think tractors for fieldwork aren't OK but lawnmowers are, for others somehow chainsaws are bad but washing machines are fine etc. Looking these over there doesn't seem to be any clear pattern to me. The grandparent mentioned them not wanting things that will "drastically change their way of life", surely having a washing machine is a bigger change to your life than having a chainsaw, even if you're a farmer.
- vic-traill 10y ago
  >surely having a washing machine is a bigger change to your life than having a chainsaw The relative effect of these devices varies by location. This assessment might be true in Southern CA, but if you're heating your domicile using wood in Northern Ontario that chainsaw is looking pretty good!
- jfoutz 10y ago
  a washing machine, with little parts that can be replaced with wood or metal, seems like the kind of thing that can be kept in good working order for a long time. I'd be leery of a chainsaw with handmade parts. I also kind of wonder about lubricants and fuel in a chainsaw, how hard is it to safely duplicate those oils?
- ruraljuror 10y ago
  In the movie The Devil's Playground there is a discussion about how the Amish adopt technology. If I remember correctly, the criteria was based on whether the technology was disruptive to the community (i.e. how it affects the relations between people rather than an individual's day-to-day life). It's been more than ten years since I've seen the movie and I'm going on memory, but that made a big impression on me.

tzs 10y ago

You might enjoy the article "Amish Hackers" [1], which looks in more detail at the Amish approach to technology. It has been discussed a few times here on HN [2]. [1] http://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ http://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Amish%20Hackers&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Amish%20Hackers&sort=byDate&da...

snarf21 10y ago

There are lots of different sects with different rules. Also, there are lots of them that have generators creating electricity but they unplug it if the church elders come for a visit.

fuhrysteve 10y ago

In the area I grew up, inflated rubber tires and bicycles were not allowed, but wooden tires on scooters were fine. Reason being, inflated tires made it too easy to travel far from home, which was generally discouraged. So many people I grew up with seemed to think that Amish were being hypocritical by paying for taxi drivers to drive them around. That's an over-simplistic view. To an Amish community, taxi fees are a tariff intended to encourage finding a job close to home - or if at all possible - in your backyard. The ideal Amish are taught to strive for and desire is to have a farm and provide for your family with your hands. Here is a great documentary about an Amish couple that gave the rare opportunity to be filmed and interviewed. It's not about the Amish that I grew up with, however their flavor of Amishness is philosophically equivalent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtNXvE_rLoE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtNXvE_rLoE

jacobheric 10y ago
Thanks for the link. Great documentary. I just watched that with my kids. We were absolutely mesmerized by the earnestness and openness of the family profiled.
tempestn 10y ago
Normally I wouldn't make an off-topic comment on region locking, but the irony of this one amused me (emphasis mine): This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  BBC worldwide is the commercial arm of the BBC, responsible for licensing TV programmes abroad.

drakenot 10y ago

You should see some videos of Amish woodworking shops. They have every tool that a modern woodworking shop would have: table saw, bandsaw, drill press, rotary sanders, etc. Except they are all air powered. They have all been rigged to run off pressurized air lines. The air is produced by a gas generator.

tenminuteslater 10y ago
This would seem to be a classic example of a distinction without a difference.
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  Air tools are far more field serviceable than electrical ones. Furthermore, if your gas engine dies you can fairly quickly rig up something with a horse and a treadmill to spin the compressor.
- ticviking 10y ago
  It has to do with wanting something they can in principal maintain forever without outside help.
  - evgen 10y ago
    They make many pressure rated air hoses in those communities? Didn't think so. As previous poster noted, it is all effectively arbitrary window dressing.
    - lostboys67 10y ago
      If it where the case they should be using belt drive driven by wind/horse power - until fairly recently mech eng techs in the uk where taught how to design belt drive systems
      - evgen 10y ago
        Belt drives are far more limited and attached tools are not mobile in any way whatsoever. Not even close when it comes to substitution technology.

edblarney 10y ago

Every community seems to be different. Different sets of rules. In the town where I grew up there are Mennonites, and now more Amish people. Apparently - the reason they don't use electricity from the grid, is because it's possibly made on 'Sunday' - ergo - they can't use it. They all have generators to make electricity for their barns, equipment etc.. No electricity to the houses though.

larsiusprime 10y ago

I don't have the citation handy, but one fun fact is that this has basically shaken out by "natural selection" if you will - there used to be Amish communities that were fine with modern travel and personal ownership of cars... but all such Amish communities basically disintegrated into the larger culture. The ones that are left are the ones that picked technology policies that allowed them to absorb benefits from modern technology without fundamentally disrupting their culture.