4 ms·

besides the Machine discussion, the article also says ----- There is no crime, because the residents know each other, have what they need, and do not wish to s

besides the Machine discussion, the article also says ----- There is no crime, because the residents know each other, have what they need, and do not wish to steal important rare items from their community members. ... There is no broader government with any power over them. They ask nothing of anyone outside their village aside from peace, and so no one but a bully can exercise power over them. ------- don't mean to be pessimistic, but I find it very unlikely things could ever work like this in real life. Just because "residents know each other" it does not mean these towns will automatically become gardens of Eden. Having what one needs has never prevented people from stepping on other people to get what they want. If everybody was content with having what one needs, we wouldn't need a Machine to have a utopian society, we could set it up quite easily without it.

germinalphrase 10y ago
Perhaps the desire to dominate can be turned toward benign tasks - such as athletics. Aldous Huxley (in "The Island") suggested rock climbing as a task perfect for turning the will to dominate others into a benign will to dominate one's self. As a rock climber this makes a lot of sense to me - your world becomes very small and focused when you're on a cliff face.
- notahacker 10y ago
  An interesting idea. Current evidence however suggests that people already effectively living in a post scarcity world - the rich - seldom refrain from further empire building, politics, gambling or media in order to enjoy outdoor pursuits.
  - filoeleven 10y ago
    Is this generally true? I recall reading that the first generation does all the things you talk about--it's how they got rich in the first place. But then the later generations tend more towards the "trust fund baby" stereotype: living off the wealth generated by their parents without doing much to grow it.
    - ticviking 10y ago
      that failure mode is more what I worry about in a reality with The Machine. What happens when we can no longer maintain it, and some major threat comes along.
  - jmatthews 10y ago
    But violent crime among the rich is a statistical blurb. It exists but is exceptional, not the rule. You shouldn't just hand wave that away.
    - notahacker 10y ago
      But I didn't imply anything about violent crime at all. Whereas the original article did handwave away the fact the ultra rich frequently do engage in other legal and somewhat-less-legal forms of rapacious behaviour - whether it's battling for political dominance, running competitors of their dynastic business empire into the ground, engineer elaborate financial deceptions or sue critics into submission - despite already having access to sufficient resources to retreat to tiny utopian idylls with likeminded neighbours if that was what they really wanted.

germinalphrase 10y ago

Perhaps the desire to dominate can be turned toward benign tasks - such as athletics. Aldous Huxley (in "The Island") suggested rock climbing as a task perfect for turning the will to dominate others into a benign will to dominate one's self. As a rock climber this makes a lot of sense to me - your world becomes very small and focused when you're on a cliff face.

notahacker 10y ago
An interesting idea. Current evidence however suggests that people already effectively living in a post scarcity world - the rich - seldom refrain from further empire building, politics, gambling or media in order to enjoy outdoor pursuits.
- filoeleven 10y ago
  Is this generally true? I recall reading that the first generation does all the things you talk about--it's how they got rich in the first place. But then the later generations tend more towards the "trust fund baby" stereotype: living off the wealth generated by their parents without doing much to grow it.
  - ticviking 10y ago
    that failure mode is more what I worry about in a reality with The Machine. What happens when we can no longer maintain it, and some major threat comes along.
- jmatthews 10y ago
  But violent crime among the rich is a statistical blurb. It exists but is exceptional, not the rule. You shouldn't just hand wave that away.
  - notahacker 10y ago
    But I didn't imply anything about violent crime at all. Whereas the original article did handwave away the fact the ultra rich frequently do engage in other legal and somewhat-less-legal forms of rapacious behaviour - whether it's battling for political dominance, running competitors of their dynastic business empire into the ground, engineer elaborate financial deceptions or sue critics into submission - despite already having access to sufficient resources to retreat to tiny utopian idylls with likeminded neighbours if that was what they really wanted.