5 ms·

You pay higher taxes in Australia which probably offsets the cost of the "free" health insurance you receive.

JonoBB 10y ago
Isn't the cost of healthcare (whoever ends up paying for it, whether it's tax, national insurance, medical aid, self pay) is cheaper in any country compared to the US?
- fapjacks 10y ago
  Yes. It's what I call the "corporate tax" in the States, and here I'm not referring to the taxes corporations pay. I'm referring to the non-tax tax imposed on citizens of the United States which are effectively taxes, but which are paid to private companies, e.g. private health insurance costs. If you factor in all kinds of these infrastructure costs which are dumped on people in with actual gummint taxes, you'll see that living in the States is a hell of a lot more expensive than people want you to believe.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Yes. Americans pay the most of any first world country, with worse outcomes. [1] [2] [3] [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2013/07/health_in_the_u_s_and_other_rich_countries_we_pay_more_in_health_care_but.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scienti... [2] http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-... [3] http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/08/us-health-care-spending-is-high-results-arenot-so-good.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/08/us-health-care-spending-is-hi...
- pravda 10y ago
  It sure is! The US even outmatches Switzerland, the most crazy-expensive country in Europe![1] We're #1! Go America! [1] Well, ok, maybe Luxembourg or Monaco are more crazy-expensive, but those are freak countries.
JshWright 10y ago
Australians pay a 2% payroll tax to fund Medicare (which provides universal coverage). I'm betting you (or your employer) pay more than 2% for health insurance... Here's a good primer on Australia's healthcare system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylsO0VVy29U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylsO0VVy29U
tankenmate 10y ago
The Medicare levy in Australia is effectively an extra 2% income tax. Of course that levy doesn't cover all the costs of the public health system; the vast majority of the rest of the cost comes from state budgets which is largely funded by GST (VAT or sales tax as it called in other places).
- JshWright 10y ago
  Somewhere around 20% of the cost (the total cost, not just the cost leftover after the levy) is covered by fees paid for services.
ceejayoz 10y ago
Regardless of funding source, the US spends dramatically more per capita on healthcare than the rest of the developed world. Australian healthcare costs half of what American healthcare does - $4,420/person in 2015 versus $9,451 in the US. Given that we don't see substantially better outcomes for that doubling of costs, we're getting absolutely hosed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...
cylinder 10y ago
The taxes are not higher than CA or NY or similar states. Why do Americans think their taxes are low? You also pay a shitload of property tax in most states of the US. Oh, bonus, if you're not employed you still get to receive medical care! And most Australians carry private cover anyways. It's better, easier to use and still so much cheaper than US insurance.
nodamage 10y ago
Someone living in California making $100k pays: Federal income tax: $18,047 State income tax: $6,288 Payroll tax: $7,650 Total tax: $31,985 Someone living in Australia making $100k pays: Income tax: $24,632 Medicare levy: $2,000 Medicare levy surcharge (?): $1,000 Total tax: $27,632 Unless I've missed a tax (I looked at payroll tax rates too but it looks like those are only paid by the employer?), it seems like the Australian actually pays less tax unless you live in the US in an income tax-free state. But then once you add in the cost of health care, Australia ends up cheaper again...
- DrScump 10y ago
  Are there no provincial or city income taxes? It's the CA income tax that distorts the comparison. Had you chosen TX or WA (for example), they are lower than Australia.
  - inopinatus 10y ago
    There are no state or municipal income taxes on individuals. The major state taxes are on property conveyance, payroll, automobiles, gambling. Note that a direct comparison by salary at $100k is potentially misleading due to exchange rates, differences in wage distribution, cost of living &c.
    - nodamage 10y ago
      I think it's better interpreted as comparing effective tax rates, i.e. 27.6% vs 31.9% of gross income. You're right that the salaries not directly comparable for the reasons you listed, but it's also pretty clear that they're not that far apart. Certainly not enough to conclude that Australians are "paying higher taxes to offset the cost of health care". By examining the numbers it's pretty clear that we're paying more for health care in the US and getting less for it.
  - nodamage 10y ago
    As far as I can tell, there's no state income tax in Australia. Not sure about city taxes. I did mention that even if you live in a tax-free state in the US, the tax savings is essentially wiped out by having to pay for your own health care. Especially if you have a spouse and kids, between monthly health care premiums and deductibles that's probably another $10-$15k out of pocket, if not more. Edit: Just ran a family of 4 (30 year old parents, 5 year old kids) through an ACA calculator. A silver plan runs around $800/month, with a total out-of-pocket max of $14,300. So, up to $25k/year in extra health care costs. It's absurd.

Isn't the cost of healthcare (whoever ends up paying for it, whether it's tax, national insurance, medical aid, self pay) is cheaper in any country compared to the US?

fapjacks 10y ago
Yes. It's what I call the "corporate tax" in the States, and here I'm not referring to the taxes corporations pay. I'm referring to the non-tax tax imposed on citizens of the United States which are effectively taxes, but which are paid to private companies, e.g. private health insurance costs. If you factor in all kinds of these infrastructure costs which are dumped on people in with actual gummint taxes, you'll see that living in the States is a hell of a lot more expensive than people want you to believe.
toomuchtodo 10y ago
Yes. Americans pay the most of any first world country, with worse outcomes. [1] [2] [3] [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2013/07/health_in_the_u_s_and_other_rich_countries_we_pay_more_in_health_care_but.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scienti... [2] http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-... [3] http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/08/us-health-care-spending-is-high-results-arenot-so-good.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/08/us-health-care-spending-is-hi...
pravda 10y ago
It sure is! The US even outmatches Switzerland, the most crazy-expensive country in Europe![1] We're #1! Go America! [1] Well, ok, maybe Luxembourg or Monaco are more crazy-expensive, but those are freak countries.

JshWright 10y ago

Australians pay a 2% payroll tax to fund Medicare (which provides universal coverage). I'm betting you (or your employer) pay more than 2% for health insurance... Here's a good primer on Australia's healthcare system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylsO0VVy29U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylsO0VVy29U

tankenmate 10y ago

The Medicare levy in Australia is effectively an extra 2% income tax. Of course that levy doesn't cover all the costs of the public health system; the vast majority of the rest of the cost comes from state budgets which is largely funded by GST (VAT or sales tax as it called in other places).

JshWright 10y ago
Somewhere around 20% of the cost (the total cost, not just the cost leftover after the levy) is covered by fees paid for services.

ceejayoz 10y ago

Regardless of funding source, the US spends dramatically more per capita on healthcare than the rest of the developed world. Australian healthcare costs half of what American healthcare does - $4,420/person in 2015 versus $9,451 in the US. Given that we don't see substantially better outcomes for that doubling of costs, we're getting absolutely hosed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

cylinder 10y ago

The taxes are not higher than CA or NY or similar states. Why do Americans think their taxes are low? You also pay a shitload of property tax in most states of the US. Oh, bonus, if you're not employed you still get to receive medical care! And most Australians carry private cover anyways. It's better, easier to use and still so much cheaper than US insurance.

nodamage 10y ago

Someone living in California making $100k pays: Federal income tax: $18,047 State income tax: $6,288 Payroll tax: $7,650 Total tax: $31,985 Someone living in Australia making $100k pays: Income tax: $24,632 Medicare levy: $2,000 Medicare levy surcharge (?): $1,000 Total tax: $27,632 Unless I've missed a tax (I looked at payroll tax rates too but it looks like those are only paid by the employer?), it seems like the Australian actually pays less tax unless you live in the US in an income tax-free state. But then once you add in the cost of health care, Australia ends up cheaper again...

DrScump 10y ago
Are there no provincial or city income taxes? It's the CA income tax that distorts the comparison. Had you chosen TX or WA (for example), they are lower than Australia.
- inopinatus 10y ago
  There are no state or municipal income taxes on individuals. The major state taxes are on property conveyance, payroll, automobiles, gambling. Note that a direct comparison by salary at $100k is potentially misleading due to exchange rates, differences in wage distribution, cost of living &c.
  - nodamage 10y ago
    I think it's better interpreted as comparing effective tax rates, i.e. 27.6% vs 31.9% of gross income. You're right that the salaries not directly comparable for the reasons you listed, but it's also pretty clear that they're not that far apart. Certainly not enough to conclude that Australians are "paying higher taxes to offset the cost of health care". By examining the numbers it's pretty clear that we're paying more for health care in the US and getting less for it.
- nodamage 10y ago
  As far as I can tell, there's no state income tax in Australia. Not sure about city taxes. I did mention that even if you live in a tax-free state in the US, the tax savings is essentially wiped out by having to pay for your own health care. Especially if you have a spouse and kids, between monthly health care premiums and deductibles that's probably another $10-$15k out of pocket, if not more. Edit: Just ran a family of 4 (30 year old parents, 5 year old kids) through an ACA calculator. A silver plan runs around $800/month, with a total out-of-pocket max of $14,300. So, up to $25k/year in extra health care costs. It's absurd.