6 ms·

Don't get it wrong, we're not lacking interesting tech jobs at all, we're lacking interesting salaries.

eloisant 10y ago
Actually things have been changing in the recent years. We're seeing bigger investment, so startups can afford bigger salaries. Also multinational companies (like Google, Facebook) are opening engineering and R&D offices in France, driving up the salaries. Anyway, most of the tech jobs in France are in the IT service industry, but if you want an attractive salary you need to go to join a software company with a product. So now you can get a pretty good salary in France as a software engineer, and while it's still lower as a number than in North America if you factor in the social system and the work/life balance it's not a bad deal at all. Just don't go to the service industry.
- jeandejean 10y ago
  By the way, Google and Facebook jobs numbers in France are just anecdotal…
  - user5994461 10y ago
    I'll repeat it again. The first thing that happens to French engineers who interview for Google: "So, this position exists only in our Dublin, London or Zurich offices. Which one would you be interested in?"
  - Shebanator 10y ago
    anecdotal? Not sure you used the right word there... FWIW, I work for google and have access to the numbers. Although I can't give specifics, I will say that although Dublin, London, and Zurich are all larger sites within Europe, the Paris office has a non-trivial number of engineers, and some cool projects going on.
    - jeandejean 10y ago
      It has roughly 100+ engineers. That is indeed VERY anecdotal, how could you claim something else? Even compared to Google worldwide (~25,000), but compared to big companies that employ thousands of engineers in France, Capgemini for instance: 22,000, Dassault Systèmes: 3,000…
  - eloisant 10y ago
    Google's office in Paris (rue de Londres) in pretty big. And it was only a few examples, but there are other wealthy multinational software companies hiring engineers in France. I have friends who had an offer at Google, but joined French companies that aligned their offer with Google. So the impact on the job market goes beyond people strictly working for them.
EduardoBautista 10y ago
Why are the salaries so much lower? Is it lack of funding or do employers just don't want to pay more?
- jeandejean 10y ago
  It is mostly because of the social welfare that is funded massively over salaries extortion. Take a random 60k€ salary for a senior software engineer in Paris, the employer is paying at least the same amount of taxes on top of that, making the cost for the company up to 120k€. It is not that far away from some foreign salaries for the same position, except in other countries highly skilled workers are not that massively extorted from their wage. Of course on the other hand you don't care too much about health insurance (you still have to get a supplement private insurance), education for your children (true that it's nearly free), vacations (5 weeks is the least, you usually get 9/10 weeks). But I think it just doesn't add up for highly skilled workers. That's why they flee to London, Germany, North America… :-)
  - user5994461 10y ago
    Honestly. The taxes are only half the story. The other half is that there are simply no company with massive revenues competing for engineers. Nothing to drive price up.
    - hocuspocus 10y ago
      Exactly. France isn't an exception in Europe regarding high taxes and social contributions (even though the distribution employee/employer is making the salaries look a bit low compared to say, Germany). And I'm sure some companies can drive salaries up, they just don't need to. Software engineering is looked down upon, most new grads want to become project manager, somehow working at a big bank / big consulting firm is seen as nobler. Even the recent trend in data science doesn't seem to leverage the education system that is particularly maths/physics heavy.
      - user5994461 10y ago
user5994461 10y ago
Where are the interesting jobs? Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citadel, and one thousand small tech and finance firms in London. The only decent company in Paris is Criteo. And you better have worked abroad at Google, Facebook then Goldman Sachs if you want a chance to be interviewed there.

Actually things have been changing in the recent years. We're seeing bigger investment, so startups can afford bigger salaries. Also multinational companies (like Google, Facebook) are opening engineering and R&D offices in France, driving up the salaries. Anyway, most of the tech jobs in France are in the IT service industry, but if you want an attractive salary you need to go to join a software company with a product. So now you can get a pretty good salary in France as a software engineer, and while it's still lower as a number than in North America if you factor in the social system and the work/life balance it's not a bad deal at all. Just don't go to the service industry.

jeandejean 10y ago
By the way, Google and Facebook jobs numbers in France are just anecdotal…
- user5994461 10y ago
  I'll repeat it again. The first thing that happens to French engineers who interview for Google: "So, this position exists only in our Dublin, London or Zurich offices. Which one would you be interested in?"
- Shebanator 10y ago
  anecdotal? Not sure you used the right word there... FWIW, I work for google and have access to the numbers. Although I can't give specifics, I will say that although Dublin, London, and Zurich are all larger sites within Europe, the Paris office has a non-trivial number of engineers, and some cool projects going on.
  - jeandejean 10y ago
    It has roughly 100+ engineers. That is indeed VERY anecdotal, how could you claim something else? Even compared to Google worldwide (~25,000), but compared to big companies that employ thousands of engineers in France, Capgemini for instance: 22,000, Dassault Systèmes: 3,000…
- eloisant 10y ago
  Google's office in Paris (rue de Londres) in pretty big. And it was only a few examples, but there are other wealthy multinational software companies hiring engineers in France. I have friends who had an offer at Google, but joined French companies that aligned their offer with Google. So the impact on the job market goes beyond people strictly working for them.

EduardoBautista 10y ago

Why are the salaries so much lower? Is it lack of funding or do employers just don't want to pay more?

jeandejean 10y ago
It is mostly because of the social welfare that is funded massively over salaries extortion. Take a random 60k€ salary for a senior software engineer in Paris, the employer is paying at least the same amount of taxes on top of that, making the cost for the company up to 120k€. It is not that far away from some foreign salaries for the same position, except in other countries highly skilled workers are not that massively extorted from their wage. Of course on the other hand you don't care too much about health insurance (you still have to get a supplement private insurance), education for your children (true that it's nearly free), vacations (5 weeks is the least, you usually get 9/10 weeks). But I think it just doesn't add up for highly skilled workers. That's why they flee to London, Germany, North America… :-)
- user5994461 10y ago
  Honestly. The taxes are only half the story. The other half is that there are simply no company with massive revenues competing for engineers. Nothing to drive price up.
  - hocuspocus 10y ago
    Exactly. France isn't an exception in Europe regarding high taxes and social contributions (even though the distribution employee/employer is making the salaries look a bit low compared to say, Germany). And I'm sure some companies can drive salaries up, they just don't need to. Software engineering is looked down upon, most new grads want to become project manager, somehow working at a big bank / big consulting firm is seen as nobler. Even the recent trend in data science doesn't seem to leverage the education system that is particularly maths/physics heavy.
    - user5994461 10y ago

user5994461 10y ago

Where are the interesting jobs? Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citadel, and one thousand small tech and finance firms in London. The only decent company in Paris is Criteo. And you better have worked abroad at Google, Facebook then Goldman Sachs if you want a chance to be interviewed there.