5 ms·

Others have replied on the salary ranges, but don't forget to factor in free healthcare, excellent public schools, ...

Chris2048 10y ago
free healthcare needs to factor in quality. There are plenty EU countries with free healthcare that is so poor people will pay to avoid it.
coredog64 10y ago
France doesn't offer "free healthcare". If you go to the doctor on an outpatient basis, you pay for the visit up front* and will be reimbursed 80% of the reasonable and customary charges. If you need to go to the hospital, then you're not paying anything. Medicine is reimbursed at a lower rate with it's own plusses and minuses: Many items that would be over the counter in the US require a prescription (e.g. lactase enzyme). So it's a hassle to get it, but you'll also get reimbursed for it if you need it. The schools are good, but they are also going to be very hard on your kids unless they are very young. Homework volume is high, and my own cynical view is that at least part of it is training kids for the experience of dealing with the difficulties of filling out lots of paperwork and dealing with the French civil service. Source: Worked for two years in a French overseas territory. The indigent and extremely poor have special programs whereby they are exempted from this. *You can buy additional insurance that will increase the coverage to 100% and/or remove the need to pre-pay. That comes with the tradeoff of having to use the provider network that the insurance company has (a la US healthcare).
- emmanuel_1234 10y ago
  An important point you seem to be missing, is that stuff that are not free but deemed a necessity (e.g.: family doctor consultation, drugs...) are capped. What they are allowed to charge at most is decided by law (in exchange, they get to control how many people gets to go to (~free) Medical School every year -- it's far from ideal, but not a terrible balance).
xienze 10y ago
It's. Not. Free. It's why the salary numbers are what they are.
- manarth 10y ago
  It's. Not. Free. "Free at the point of delivery". Do you pay to use the highway, or do you drive on the highway for free? If you can use a service without handing over money for the use of that service, it's reasonable to call it "free".
  - xienze 10y ago
    > Do you pay to use the highway Yes, because part of my paycheck goes towards that. And every time I fill up. You seem to fall into the trap of "if I don't hand over money at the same time as I make use of something, it's free." Politicians love to exploit this phenomenon for maximum effect.
    - manarth 10y ago
      You seem to fall into the trap of "if I don't hand over money at the same time as I make use of something, it's free." The distinction is that it doesn't matter how much or little I use it, I pay no more. If I drive on the highway, I don't pay anything extra. If I choose not to drive on the highway, I don't get cash in my pocket. Use of the service doesn't cost anything - this is "free at the point of delivery". This is important, because it means that the service is independent of income. I don't need income to drive on the highway. I don't need income to have secure healthcare. Some services are important enough to be socialised, so that the service is open to everyone, irrespective of their income, wealth, or lack of.
      - xienze 10y ago
        > I don't need income to drive on the highway. Don't need gas? > Some services are important enough to be socialised, so that the service is open to everyone, irrespective of their income, wealth, or lack of. And they continue to operate so long as there are enough people who _actually pay for these services_. Maybe you don't fall into that category, fine. But there are a lot of people who do, and it all comes straight out their paycheck. It is not free for them by any stretch of the imagination.

Chris2048 10y ago

free healthcare needs to factor in quality. There are plenty EU countries with free healthcare that is so poor people will pay to avoid it.

coredog64 10y ago

France doesn't offer "free healthcare". If you go to the doctor on an outpatient basis, you pay for the visit up front* and will be reimbursed 80% of the reasonable and customary charges. If you need to go to the hospital, then you're not paying anything. Medicine is reimbursed at a lower rate with it's own plusses and minuses: Many items that would be over the counter in the US require a prescription (e.g. lactase enzyme). So it's a hassle to get it, but you'll also get reimbursed for it if you need it. The schools are good, but they are also going to be very hard on your kids unless they are very young. Homework volume is high, and my own cynical view is that at least part of it is training kids for the experience of dealing with the difficulties of filling out lots of paperwork and dealing with the French civil service. Source: Worked for two years in a French overseas territory. The indigent and extremely poor have special programs whereby they are exempted from this. *You can buy additional insurance that will increase the coverage to 100% and/or remove the need to pre-pay. That comes with the tradeoff of having to use the provider network that the insurance company has (a la US healthcare).

emmanuel_1234 10y ago
An important point you seem to be missing, is that stuff that are not free but deemed a necessity (e.g.: family doctor consultation, drugs...) are capped. What they are allowed to charge at most is decided by law (in exchange, they get to control how many people gets to go to (~free) Medical School every year -- it's far from ideal, but not a terrible balance).

xienze 10y ago

It's. Not. Free. It's why the salary numbers are what they are.

manarth 10y ago
It's. Not. Free. "Free at the point of delivery". Do you pay to use the highway, or do you drive on the highway for free? If you can use a service without handing over money for the use of that service, it's reasonable to call it "free".
- xienze 10y ago
  > Do you pay to use the highway Yes, because part of my paycheck goes towards that. And every time I fill up. You seem to fall into the trap of "if I don't hand over money at the same time as I make use of something, it's free." Politicians love to exploit this phenomenon for maximum effect.
  - manarth 10y ago
    You seem to fall into the trap of "if I don't hand over money at the same time as I make use of something, it's free." The distinction is that it doesn't matter how much or little I use it, I pay no more. If I drive on the highway, I don't pay anything extra. If I choose not to drive on the highway, I don't get cash in my pocket. Use of the service doesn't cost anything - this is "free at the point of delivery". This is important, because it means that the service is independent of income. I don't need income to drive on the highway. I don't need income to have secure healthcare. Some services are important enough to be socialised, so that the service is open to everyone, irrespective of their income, wealth, or lack of.
    - xienze 10y ago
      > I don't need income to drive on the highway. Don't need gas? > Some services are important enough to be socialised, so that the service is open to everyone, irrespective of their income, wealth, or lack of. And they continue to operate so long as there are enough people who _actually pay for these services_. Maybe you don't fall into that category, fine. But there are a lot of people who do, and it all comes straight out their paycheck. It is not free for them by any stretch of the imagination.