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The American Physical Society maintains numbers on career paths for their student members, and less than 5 percent end up with a Physicist job title. Most end u

The American Physical Society maintains numbers on career paths for their student members, and less than 5 percent end up with a Physicist job title. Most end up in the career paths you list.

crazypyro 10y ago
For anyone curious, here's a one year phd employment survey for physics: https://www.aip.org/sites/default/files/statistics/employment/phdinitemp-p-14.pdf https://www.aip.org/sites/default/files/statistics/employmen... 803 responses, 297 in potentially full-time positions. 62% (of all physics phds employed at potentially full-time positions) in non-physics field, break down by industry: Engineering - 20% Computer software - 14% Business or Finance - 11% Other sciences - 8% Education - 2% Medical services - 2% Other - 5%
- NumberSix 10y ago
  The use of the phrase "potentially permanent positions" in the AIP report for industry positions, especially in the computer industry, is highly misleading. Academia, including some government labs and institutes, has tenured positions and other positions with guarantees of job security until retirement. The vast majority of industry employees are "at will" and can be laid off at any time for any reason or no reason. Senior executives often have employment contracts that take them out of the "at will" category but these rarely provide long term "permanent" status. Indeed, they can usually be fired by the Board of Directors. The computer industry is notoriously unstable with jobs often quite short term in practice, with layoffs common. Just to be clear, the referenced AIP report starts with the phrase: Positions accepted by PhD degree recipients following receipt of their degrees fall into three categories: postdoctoral fellowships, potentially permanent positions and other temporary positions. The figure on page two of the AIP report specifically lists a "private sector" block under "potentially permanent". Tabel 1 on page 3 lists 70 percent of potentially permanent positions as "private sector." Again this is very misleading as private sector positions are potentially permanent only is the sense that there is a small chance that you might continue at the same employer until retirement; there is nothing like a guarantee.
  - crazypyro 10y ago
    FWIW, I basically interpreted it as full-time employment, but they are definitely playing with the wording a little bit and the data isn't clear on the level of employment at all.
    - NumberSix 10y ago
      The report is probably aimed at young people, college students in particular, investigating pursuing a Ph.D., who often are unfamiliar with the work world. "Potentially permanent positions" in the computer industry is not going to fool someone who has been working in the computer industry more than a few years. College or high school students are a different matter and won't automatically equate "potential permanent position" and "at will full time position."
      - avn2109 10y ago
        "Potentially permanent positions" is a euphemism for "tenure track research job."
        NumberSix 10y ago
        Yes, that is my point. There are almost no jobs in the private sector, especially the computer industry, analogous to a "tenure track research job." Possibly some corporate research labs like HP Labs, which have nearly all been downsized heavily or completely eliminated since the 1990s, have positions like this. The vast majority of Ph.D. physicists who move on to industry are getting some type of software development job which are "at will full time" jobs with no future prospect of something like tenure.
      - jschwartzi 10y ago
        Their data is partly why I didn't pursue a PhD.
  - sciurus 10y ago
    I don't understand your strong objection to the phrase "potentially permanent position". Do you believe that the AIP is trying to mislead students into believing programming jobs in the private sector have tenure!? To me "potentially permanent" seems like a serviceable phrase to encompass positions in academia and in industry that do not have an end data built in to them. It contrasts them to "temporary" positions like postdocs in academia or contractors in industry where you know going into the job that your employment ends on a certain date.
sjg007 10y ago
Finance use to be a big draw. Not sure if it still is. I am tempted to move to finance...

The American Physical Society maintains numbers on career paths for their student members, and less than 5 percent end up with a Physicist job title. Most end up in the career paths you list.

crazypyro 10y ago

For anyone curious, here's a one year phd employment survey for physics: https://www.aip.org/sites/default/files/statistics/employment/phdinitemp-p-14.pdf https://www.aip.org/sites/default/files/statistics/employmen... 803 responses, 297 in potentially full-time positions. 62% (of all physics phds employed at potentially full-time positions) in non-physics field, break down by industry: Engineering - 20% Computer software - 14% Business or Finance - 11% Other sciences - 8% Education - 2% Medical services - 2% Other - 5%

NumberSix 10y ago
The use of the phrase "potentially permanent positions" in the AIP report for industry positions, especially in the computer industry, is highly misleading. Academia, including some government labs and institutes, has tenured positions and other positions with guarantees of job security until retirement. The vast majority of industry employees are "at will" and can be laid off at any time for any reason or no reason. Senior executives often have employment contracts that take them out of the "at will" category but these rarely provide long term "permanent" status. Indeed, they can usually be fired by the Board of Directors. The computer industry is notoriously unstable with jobs often quite short term in practice, with layoffs common. Just to be clear, the referenced AIP report starts with the phrase: Positions accepted by PhD degree recipients following receipt of their degrees fall into three categories: postdoctoral fellowships, potentially permanent positions and other temporary positions. The figure on page two of the AIP report specifically lists a "private sector" block under "potentially permanent". Tabel 1 on page 3 lists 70 percent of potentially permanent positions as "private sector." Again this is very misleading as private sector positions are potentially permanent only is the sense that there is a small chance that you might continue at the same employer until retirement; there is nothing like a guarantee.
- crazypyro 10y ago
  FWIW, I basically interpreted it as full-time employment, but they are definitely playing with the wording a little bit and the data isn't clear on the level of employment at all.
  - NumberSix 10y ago
    The report is probably aimed at young people, college students in particular, investigating pursuing a Ph.D., who often are unfamiliar with the work world. "Potentially permanent positions" in the computer industry is not going to fool someone who has been working in the computer industry more than a few years. College or high school students are a different matter and won't automatically equate "potential permanent position" and "at will full time position."
    - avn2109 10y ago
      "Potentially permanent positions" is a euphemism for "tenure track research job."
      - NumberSix 10y ago
        Yes, that is my point. There are almost no jobs in the private sector, especially the computer industry, analogous to a "tenure track research job." Possibly some corporate research labs like HP Labs, which have nearly all been downsized heavily or completely eliminated since the 1990s, have positions like this. The vast majority of Ph.D. physicists who move on to industry are getting some type of software development job which are "at will full time" jobs with no future prospect of something like tenure.
    - jschwartzi 10y ago
      Their data is partly why I didn't pursue a PhD.
- sciurus 10y ago
  I don't understand your strong objection to the phrase "potentially permanent position". Do you believe that the AIP is trying to mislead students into believing programming jobs in the private sector have tenure!? To me "potentially permanent" seems like a serviceable phrase to encompass positions in academia and in industry that do not have an end data built in to them. It contrasts them to "temporary" positions like postdocs in academia or contractors in industry where you know going into the job that your employment ends on a certain date.

sjg007 10y ago

Finance use to be a big draw. Not sure if it still is. I am tempted to move to finance...