18 ms·

Like not speaking the local language of any country : won't work in the long term.

nkkollaw 10y ago
I disagree. Not every country is the same. I was in Berlin, and I was never spoken to in German (since I don't really look German), and I would ask the person if they spoke English just to be polite before I started speaking to them, and they would almost get offended. Actually, I hardly heard any German being spoken. On the contrary, in Warsaw I had problems getting basic directions in English even if I asked young people on the street. They were either self-conscious or didn't know English, but either way they wouldn't speak to me in English. When I went to mini-markets and places where you'd find less educated people at the cash register, absolutely zero. Not even "bag".
- paraboul 10y ago
  I'm actually a French who lived 5 years in Berlin. I can tell you that not speaking german was really a burden (again in the long term). Everyone below 40 speaks english, but as soon as you have to deal with the administration, or just even the doctor, it really was a PITA. Also, Even the tech support (e.g. for Internet) wasn't allowed to speaks English on phone. I'm pretty sure the same "issues" apply to any country.
  - nkkollaw 10y ago
    Yes. My point wasn't that it's not a problem in the long term, but that in some countries it's also a problem in the short term. In Poland I really felt unwelcomed on many occasions. The fact that they're extremely nationalistic doesn't help, I guess. I was surprised that even 18-year-olds wouldn't speak English to me. I'm now learning Polish.
    - throwaway1892 10y ago
      That's odd, I felt very welcome when I was there hiking this summer. But then it might not have been in the same areas, plus the usual difference between the country and cities.
      - nkkollaw 10y ago
        Definitely. Also, you might just have gotten lucky (or me unlucky). Generalizing is difficult (of course, it's impossible talking about these things without generalizing).
  - tonfa 10y ago
    Large companies in Switzerland (e.g. telcos) often provides customer services in English.
    - hocuspocus 10y ago
      Telcos, banks, insurances, and even some administrations. When you have to provide service in German, French and Italian, adding English doesn't require a huge effort :) My foreign friends would complain mostly about real-estate agents (it's a sellers market, they make no effort).
- jules 10y ago
  If you are happy to live in an expat bubble then it works, but if you want to connect with the locals it doesn't. Most friend groups won't change their language to english to include you.
  - nkkollaw 10y ago
    In my experience, it depends. With me, in Berlin everyone would speak English. In Warsaw and Wroclaw, if I was brought in by one of the group, the whole group would speak English to not be rude. If it's random people, they wouldn't. Single guys or girls not in a group will speak English to you if you're hanging out with them. I think it largely depends on who it is you're dealing with. "uneducated" people and the elderly will be less likely to speak or wanting to speak English (cashiers are the worse, in my experience). Most young people will speak English. Programmers and startup people all speak English. Doctors speak English, etc.
- richthegeek 10y ago
  From dating a Polish girl, and meeting some of her relatives and friends in Poland, I'd say it's mostly a problem of confidence. Once they started talking there was rarely a problem (at least for non-rare words), but a lot of them didn't speak English to non-Poles often enough to feel like they actually could.
  - nkkollaw 10y ago
    I too believe that young people are just self-conscious, perhaps because they're not used to speaking it. A lot of old people dislike foreigners to a certain extend, however, and I bet some of them wouldn't speak it on purpose even if they could. For instance, an old lady at a drugstore complained to the cashier at the register because I took too long picking some medicine, while "there were Poles waiting in line". Let's just say that Berlin was more foreign-friendly in my experience.
xiaoma 10y ago
I've met people who did well in Hong Kong for decades without learning the local language (Cantonese) and then haven't bothered to learn Mandarin since China took control 20 years ago. It's pretty doable in Sweden, too. In Japan, Russia or Argentina, though, you'd be at an enormous disadvantage.
- FabHK 10y ago
  To be fair, HK is bilingual, at least in the sense that all government/utility/etc. forms are available in both Cantonese and English (these days also in Simplified Chinese). Article 9 of the Basic Law stipulates: "In addition to the Chinese language, English may also be used as an official language by the executive authorities, legislature and judiciary of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region." So, it's quite easy to get along without Cantonese or Mandarin (or without English, for that matter). However, without Cantonese, one only has limited access to what's going on in politics, civil society, show biz, etc.
anirul 10y ago
In Switzerland (we already have 4 local languages) it is very common for people not to speak the local language. I have seen people leaving in Geneva for more than 20 years and still not speaking french. The swiss government is even translating the laws in English for foreigners.

I disagree. Not every country is the same. I was in Berlin, and I was never spoken to in German (since I don't really look German), and I would ask the person if they spoke English just to be polite before I started speaking to them, and they would almost get offended. Actually, I hardly heard any German being spoken. On the contrary, in Warsaw I had problems getting basic directions in English even if I asked young people on the street. They were either self-conscious or didn't know English, but either way they wouldn't speak to me in English. When I went to mini-markets and places where you'd find less educated people at the cash register, absolutely zero. Not even "bag".

paraboul 10y ago
I'm actually a French who lived 5 years in Berlin. I can tell you that not speaking german was really a burden (again in the long term). Everyone below 40 speaks english, but as soon as you have to deal with the administration, or just even the doctor, it really was a PITA. Also, Even the tech support (e.g. for Internet) wasn't allowed to speaks English on phone. I'm pretty sure the same "issues" apply to any country.
- nkkollaw 10y ago
  Yes. My point wasn't that it's not a problem in the long term, but that in some countries it's also a problem in the short term. In Poland I really felt unwelcomed on many occasions. The fact that they're extremely nationalistic doesn't help, I guess. I was surprised that even 18-year-olds wouldn't speak English to me. I'm now learning Polish.
  - throwaway1892 10y ago
    That's odd, I felt very welcome when I was there hiking this summer. But then it might not have been in the same areas, plus the usual difference between the country and cities.
    - nkkollaw 10y ago
      Definitely. Also, you might just have gotten lucky (or me unlucky). Generalizing is difficult (of course, it's impossible talking about these things without generalizing).
- tonfa 10y ago
  Large companies in Switzerland (e.g. telcos) often provides customer services in English.
  - hocuspocus 10y ago
    Telcos, banks, insurances, and even some administrations. When you have to provide service in German, French and Italian, adding English doesn't require a huge effort :) My foreign friends would complain mostly about real-estate agents (it's a sellers market, they make no effort).
jules 10y ago
If you are happy to live in an expat bubble then it works, but if you want to connect with the locals it doesn't. Most friend groups won't change their language to english to include you.
- nkkollaw 10y ago
  In my experience, it depends. With me, in Berlin everyone would speak English. In Warsaw and Wroclaw, if I was brought in by one of the group, the whole group would speak English to not be rude. If it's random people, they wouldn't. Single guys or girls not in a group will speak English to you if you're hanging out with them. I think it largely depends on who it is you're dealing with. "uneducated" people and the elderly will be less likely to speak or wanting to speak English (cashiers are the worse, in my experience). Most young people will speak English. Programmers and startup people all speak English. Doctors speak English, etc.
richthegeek 10y ago
From dating a Polish girl, and meeting some of her relatives and friends in Poland, I'd say it's mostly a problem of confidence. Once they started talking there was rarely a problem (at least for non-rare words), but a lot of them didn't speak English to non-Poles often enough to feel like they actually could.
- nkkollaw 10y ago
  I too believe that young people are just self-conscious, perhaps because they're not used to speaking it. A lot of old people dislike foreigners to a certain extend, however, and I bet some of them wouldn't speak it on purpose even if they could. For instance, an old lady at a drugstore complained to the cashier at the register because I took too long picking some medicine, while "there were Poles waiting in line". Let's just say that Berlin was more foreign-friendly in my experience.

xiaoma 10y ago

I've met people who did well in Hong Kong for decades without learning the local language (Cantonese) and then haven't bothered to learn Mandarin since China took control 20 years ago. It's pretty doable in Sweden, too. In Japan, Russia or Argentina, though, you'd be at an enormous disadvantage.

FabHK 10y ago
To be fair, HK is bilingual, at least in the sense that all government/utility/etc. forms are available in both Cantonese and English (these days also in Simplified Chinese). Article 9 of the Basic Law stipulates: "In addition to the Chinese language, English may also be used as an official language by the executive authorities, legislature and judiciary of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region." So, it's quite easy to get along without Cantonese or Mandarin (or without English, for that matter). However, without Cantonese, one only has limited access to what's going on in politics, civil society, show biz, etc.

anirul 10y ago

In Switzerland (we already have 4 local languages) it is very common for people not to speak the local language. I have seen people leaving in Geneva for more than 20 years and still not speaking french. The swiss government is even translating the laws in English for foreigners.