6 ms·

Thanks for linking this. I'd read previously that the use of the letter y in "ye olde..." was from simplifying the typesetting of thorn but the article here cl

by duality 10y ago

Thanks for linking this. I'd read previously that the use of the letter y in "ye olde..." was from simplifying the typesetting of thorn but the article here claims eth was used in the original spelling. Is there more to the story or is the article wrong?

ascotan 10y ago
Yea I read that too. It might have been wrong. It appears (from this author) that eth was the 'hard TH' (say: that) and thorn was the 'soft TH' (say: with)
- laretluval 10y ago
  Eth and thorn were interchangeable in Old English. The article is incorrect.
- fnj 10y ago
  The th sound in that is exactly the same as the th sound in with.
  - grzm 10y ago
    It depends on dialect. In American English, the th in that is voiced; /ðæt/ http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/that http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/th... In my dialect, the th in with is unvoiced, though it looks like it is voiced in others: /wɪð/ /wɪθ/ http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/with http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/wi...
    - caf 10y ago
      "thin" might be a better example that is more consistently pronounced with the unvoiced 'th'?
      - grzm 10y ago
        Indeed, thin is the examplar given in Wikipedia for /θ/. It also has further explanation of th is sometimes voiced and sometimes unvoiced depending on context. One thing to note is that some English speakers pronounce /ð/ and /θ/ as allophones, likely due to their identical orthography. At the beginning and middle of words, it becomes voiced /θɪn/ and /θɪŋ/ (thin and thing) becoming /ðɪn/ and /ðɪŋ/, respectively. At the end of words, it remains unvoiced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative th-fronting always catches my attention as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting

by duality 10y ago

ascotan 10y ago

Yea I read that too. It might have been wrong. It appears (from this author) that eth was the 'hard TH' (say: that) and thorn was the 'soft TH' (say: with)

laretluval 10y ago
Eth and thorn were interchangeable in Old English. The article is incorrect.
fnj 10y ago
The th sound in that is exactly the same as the th sound in with.
- grzm 10y ago
  It depends on dialect. In American English, the th in that is voiced; /ðæt/ http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/that http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/th... In my dialect, the th in with is unvoiced, though it looks like it is voiced in others: /wɪð/ /wɪθ/ http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/with http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/wi...
  - caf 10y ago
    "thin" might be a better example that is more consistently pronounced with the unvoiced 'th'?
    - grzm 10y ago
      Indeed, thin is the examplar given in Wikipedia for /θ/. It also has further explanation of th is sometimes voiced and sometimes unvoiced depending on context. One thing to note is that some English speakers pronounce /ð/ and /θ/ as allophones, likely due to their identical orthography. At the beginning and middle of words, it becomes voiced /θɪn/ and /θɪŋ/ (thin and thing) becoming /ðɪn/ and /ðɪŋ/, respectively. At the end of words, it remains unvoiced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative th-fronting always catches my attention as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting