4 ms·

Saying phone numbers are no proper verification because some people refuse to have mobiles is like saying fingerprint verification is no proper verification bec

Saying phone numbers are no proper verification because some people refuse to have mobiles is like saying fingerprint verification is no proper verification because some people don't have fingers... Well, no. It's worse. You've chosen to be a "nomad", "outcast", whatever it is, well, then live by your word.

jobigoud 10y ago
So you are saying it's serious and an alternate solution should exist.
herbst 10y ago
Interesting conclusion and now i am curious what the police/visa offices do with people without fingers. Most likely they offer a alternative, which is all i am ranting for here. If i choose to have "less" security by using email (in fact its more, but thats a different topic) it should be my choice. I should not be forced to own a fixed telephone number, especially for services that just dont know any better. I should also not be forced to give away possible access to my accounts just because i tend to change phone numbers. Edit:// To your edit. With "nomad" i dont mean i live like a outcast. I am currently living as digitalnomad. I have a home address and earn money, i just dont have a fixed telephone number anymore.
- akjainaj 10y ago
  If people had the choice of not using a mobile phone when creating and account, 1) recovering lost accounts would be much harder (and that's actual support, it costs them money, so they want to avoid it) and 2) fighting spam would also be harder (everybody gets to create an account and send mail with it? Wow, that's really going to cost them money!) Anyway there are mail providers who won't ask you for a mail. Protonmail and GMX come to my mind.
  - herbst 10y ago
    Valid arguments indeed. Many roll well with not allowing common mail providers (there are available lists) and as i own my own domains i welcome that. If they require telephone number i would at least expect them to support a wide range of providers and not only some. Like i really cant get over the fact that Twitter locks out the most popular Thai provider. They however could also send me a letter, or have me auth with Authy/Google Auth to make a single identity system. Maybe even requiring my passport number + name. Its not like phone would be the only solution. And yeah i see that may is hard for small providers, but it shouldnt be hard for bigger ones. Or like in Twitters case, its not about having a single account anyway, you can have hundreds with the same phone number, but not a single with a thai phone carrier. Edit:// To clearify i personally have no issue with initial confirmation over SMS, i mean i own a phone number most of the time. I just not own it for longer than a month, so it is not valid for me for further authentication.
    - akjainaj 10y ago
      You live in Switzerland. If you can create a phone number with a Thai carrier from there, I am sure you understand why Twitter refuses to deal with such a carrier.
      - herbst 10y ago
        I dont. I live in Thailand right now, tomorrow maybe in Vietnam. Right now i might be a edge case but remote work is growing fast. You can create throwaway SMS numbers for a few cents with several online providers, some even accept Bitcoin payments and dont ask for a name and Twitter accepts them happily. Its just the third party provider they use that did not implement that specific carrier yet. Edit:// Also i am curious now why you think i had a thai phone number while living in switzerland? :D There are countries like austria that dont even ask for a passport for prepaid directly next to it, why would i go thai?
        akjainaj 10y ago
        The "about" section of your website says you live in Switzerland. At least here it's not legal for a mobile operator to give you a phone number if they don't have your ID (not even a prepaid number) so I supposed it was the same in the whole EU. Therefore I imagined you heard somewhere there's an operator in Thailand that lets you get a number without giving an ID, maybe even for free, so you wanted to get one to auth in Twitter. But such a system would be abused by spammers so Twitter had blocked that operator already. Yes, quite the elucubration, I know.
Zak 10y ago
A more mainstream problem would be moving, or even traveling for a moderate amount of time to another country. Within the EU, that's fairly common, as many countries are rather small and the borders between them are rather open. For comparison with the US, the barriers to this are a little higher than moving to another state, but not a lot higher. Having important services tied to a phone number, which remains relatively tied to a country is problematic in the modern world even for people who aren't especially "outcast".
- akjainaj 10y ago
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/11707837/Europe-to-abolish-mobile-roaming-charges-by-2017.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/11707837...
  - Zak 10y ago
    roaming providers will be able to apply a 'fair use policy' to prevent abusive use of roaming. This would include using roaming services for purposes other than periodic travel So very much a partial solution. In particular, it's no good for someone who moves long-term or, say, someone studying in another country. Simply changing phone numbers with a bunch of services is a serious pain in the ass even if they all consider the new number acceptable. As an American currently living in Germany, I've run in to this kind of problem myself. My mobile banking app, for example wants to send an SMS for verification because it thinks connecting from an non-US IP address is suspicious, but I can't give it a non-US phone number to do that with. Providing a different option for 2FA would be a big help.
ryandrake 10y ago
Strange how "not having a mobile phone" is seen by some as being a "nomad" or "outcast". Come on. They've become pretty common, but let's not get carried away here.
- akjainaj 10y ago
  Do you know a single person who doesn't have a phone number? And I don't mean to say a smartphone. Just a phone number.

jobigoud 10y ago

So you are saying it's serious and an alternate solution should exist.

herbst 10y ago

Interesting conclusion and now i am curious what the police/visa offices do with people without fingers. Most likely they offer a alternative, which is all i am ranting for here. If i choose to have "less" security by using email (in fact its more, but thats a different topic) it should be my choice. I should not be forced to own a fixed telephone number, especially for services that just dont know any better. I should also not be forced to give away possible access to my accounts just because i tend to change phone numbers. Edit:// To your edit. With "nomad" i dont mean i live like a outcast. I am currently living as digitalnomad. I have a home address and earn money, i just dont have a fixed telephone number anymore.

akjainaj 10y ago
If people had the choice of not using a mobile phone when creating and account, 1) recovering lost accounts would be much harder (and that's actual support, it costs them money, so they want to avoid it) and 2) fighting spam would also be harder (everybody gets to create an account and send mail with it? Wow, that's really going to cost them money!) Anyway there are mail providers who won't ask you for a mail. Protonmail and GMX come to my mind.
- herbst 10y ago
  Valid arguments indeed. Many roll well with not allowing common mail providers (there are available lists) and as i own my own domains i welcome that. If they require telephone number i would at least expect them to support a wide range of providers and not only some. Like i really cant get over the fact that Twitter locks out the most popular Thai provider. They however could also send me a letter, or have me auth with Authy/Google Auth to make a single identity system. Maybe even requiring my passport number + name. Its not like phone would be the only solution. And yeah i see that may is hard for small providers, but it shouldnt be hard for bigger ones. Or like in Twitters case, its not about having a single account anyway, you can have hundreds with the same phone number, but not a single with a thai phone carrier. Edit:// To clearify i personally have no issue with initial confirmation over SMS, i mean i own a phone number most of the time. I just not own it for longer than a month, so it is not valid for me for further authentication.
  - akjainaj 10y ago
    You live in Switzerland. If you can create a phone number with a Thai carrier from there, I am sure you understand why Twitter refuses to deal with such a carrier.
    - herbst 10y ago
      I dont. I live in Thailand right now, tomorrow maybe in Vietnam. Right now i might be a edge case but remote work is growing fast. You can create throwaway SMS numbers for a few cents with several online providers, some even accept Bitcoin payments and dont ask for a name and Twitter accepts them happily. Its just the third party provider they use that did not implement that specific carrier yet. Edit:// Also i am curious now why you think i had a thai phone number while living in switzerland? :D There are countries like austria that dont even ask for a passport for prepaid directly next to it, why would i go thai?
      - akjainaj 10y ago
        The "about" section of your website says you live in Switzerland. At least here it's not legal for a mobile operator to give you a phone number if they don't have your ID (not even a prepaid number) so I supposed it was the same in the whole EU. Therefore I imagined you heard somewhere there's an operator in Thailand that lets you get a number without giving an ID, maybe even for free, so you wanted to get one to auth in Twitter. But such a system would be abused by spammers so Twitter had blocked that operator already. Yes, quite the elucubration, I know.

Zak 10y ago

A more mainstream problem would be moving, or even traveling for a moderate amount of time to another country. Within the EU, that's fairly common, as many countries are rather small and the borders between them are rather open. For comparison with the US, the barriers to this are a little higher than moving to another state, but not a lot higher. Having important services tied to a phone number, which remains relatively tied to a country is problematic in the modern world even for people who aren't especially "outcast".

akjainaj 10y ago
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/11707837/Europe-to-abolish-mobile-roaming-charges-by-2017.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/11707837...
- Zak 10y ago
  roaming providers will be able to apply a 'fair use policy' to prevent abusive use of roaming. This would include using roaming services for purposes other than periodic travel So very much a partial solution. In particular, it's no good for someone who moves long-term or, say, someone studying in another country. Simply changing phone numbers with a bunch of services is a serious pain in the ass even if they all consider the new number acceptable. As an American currently living in Germany, I've run in to this kind of problem myself. My mobile banking app, for example wants to send an SMS for verification because it thinks connecting from an non-US IP address is suspicious, but I can't give it a non-US phone number to do that with. Providing a different option for 2FA would be a big help.

ryandrake 10y ago

Strange how "not having a mobile phone" is seen by some as being a "nomad" or "outcast". Come on. They've become pretty common, but let's not get carried away here.

akjainaj 10y ago
Do you know a single person who doesn't have a phone number? And I don't mean to say a smartphone. Just a phone number.