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> - Do not compromise with others in coorporation. Ask for script for everything. If sysadmin tells you that server is low on disk you ask for proof in the form

by vacri 10y ago

> - Do not compromise with others in coorporation. Ask for script for everything. If sysadmin tells you that server is low on disk you ask for proof in the form of the command you can execute. Ask for invoke-sql when using databases. If you give admin a job to create a IIS site for your web app ask for a script. If you are a project manager, do not close tickets without a script. If you take that "do not compromise, demand a script that proves" attitude this this sysadmin, then this sysadmin will "not compromise" in return, and your code will never be deployed - clearly you're not going to be working on bugfixes, so why should it be deployed? I'm generally very helpful and my devs generally like me. I take the time to teach when I can and try to learn and understand when I can't. But when someone demands that I write scripts to prove all bugs I find, they can fuck off. I don't have unlimited time - and my duties extend beyond babysitting code. I don't have the close knowledge of the codebase that the developer has. I'm not in the architectural meetings where decisions are made on the internals. I take the code I'm given, and make it live and breathe in the world. I work with the devs in doing this - and if a dev decides that they're too important to be bothered doing legwork in the code that they're the most familiar with, well, fuck 'em. They can sit with their ticket left open. We're all in this shit together; don't make me do your job with less domain knowledge than you.

majkinetor 10y ago
> Clearly you're not going to be working on bugfixes, so why should it be deployed? What makes you say that ? > And my devs generally like me. And half of the world likes Kim Kardashian so what ? > But when someone demands that I write scripts to prove all bugs I find, they can fuck off You are not being proffesional then. You demand time of others to do your work, because, hej, you do your best, right ? Your managers decided to leave you out on arch decisions so you think all managers are like that. You extrapolate your slow and unworthy experience to everybody else. The point is, there are almost no single time events in enterprise. Everything you do, somebody will have to do again, tomorrow, a few days from now, or a year later. So, if you do the things your way, others will have to repeat what you did (or you, or worse, somebody new who knows nothing about it but could get your script with simple Redmine search along with some 'historical records' - read the TMMM and see how communication/tutoring is important - feel free to watch Galaxy Quest later) and that is not a nice thing to do in a company - you are wasting our time, resources, customers etc., on the long run: https://xkcd.com/974/ https://xkcd.com/974/ You can do whatever the fuck you want in the company of your grandpa, but its about time you sysadmins understand that good sysadmining means understanding the code concepts and development tools, and ability to script in the middle of the night. Nobody will ever ask you to write Gherkin tests, Performanse test, unit tests, integration tests, to know OO patterns etc... But in my team I will demand you know how to write 50-100 line scripts. If you can't do that, then you are emberresment for your proffession. Good time to quote Jeffrey Snover: "GUI-only, Click-Next, no-value-add Admins will be replaced with a new type of Admin - the kind that greet you the lobby". When you start to experience this paradigm shift, you will soon find yourself thinking about how did you live before that, and maybe even buy me a beer for letting you know that you can improve.
- vacri 10y ago
  >> Clearly you're not going to be working on bugfixes, so why should it be deployed? > What makes you say that ? "Do not compromise". That's what "do not compromise" means. If you do your work without getting those things you have demanded, then you have compromised. > And half of the world likes Kim Kardashian so what ? My point was that I don't pride myself on being a BOFH. Apparently it's not okay to say "I get along with colleagues", but it's totally okay to say "I make the standards that people in other companies follow like groupies!". Sure you do, mate. Sure you do. > You are not being proffesional then. You demand time of others to do your work, because, hej, you do your best, right ? When I say "Hey, devs, this error is appearing in the logs on production - the logs you wrote for the application you wrote - please look at it", the one who is not being professional is the one who says "I'm not going to look at it until you troubleshoot the issue to the degree that you can write a script that replicates the error". > and ability to script in the middle of the night You mean the time that devs are never around? It's a bit rich you complaining of sysadmins 'not working after hours'. > But in my team I will demand you know how to write 50-100 line scripts. If you can't do that, then you are emberresment for your proffession. a) Even if English is not your first language, if you're accusing someone of being unprofessional, learn to spell the word. It undermines your jibe when you can't spell an insult about professionalism. b) I can write the scripts. Clearly your troubleshooting is so atrophied that you can't see that I'm talking about the process and incumbent knowledge, not the ability to code. Yes, I write scripts, but no, I don't know what internal code doo-dad you devs thought to change in your last stand-up and pushed through. Why the fuck should the guy who is not intimately familiar with the codebase be the fucker that has to waste their time hunting the snark, then coding up a test for what is, to them, a (somewhat) black box? > GUI-only, Click-Next, no-value-add Admins will be replaced with a new type of Admin Again, fuck you too. I live in terminals. You're the lazy guy that wants everyone else to do the work. I'm saying that the person who knows the application should write the replicator script - you're saying the person who reports the issue should write it. God knows how you take a bug report from a non-technical person. I guess it just gets auto-marked WONTFIX. Certainly you've learned more about the politics than the technical aspects of the industry. "I write stuff the whole country uses!" carries much less cachet when it's a small Balkan state known more for nepotism than for a strong technical sector. Especially when you also say "you can't force anything on someone working in gov", given that government software projects are rarely known for their excellence. But keep on bragging, eventually you'll find someone who listens to the brag rather than the technical merits.

by vacri 10y ago

majkinetor 10y ago

> Clearly you're not going to be working on bugfixes, so why should it be deployed? What makes you say that ? > And my devs generally like me. And half of the world likes Kim Kardashian so what ? > But when someone demands that I write scripts to prove all bugs I find, they can fuck off You are not being proffesional then. You demand time of others to do your work, because, hej, you do your best, right ? Your managers decided to leave you out on arch decisions so you think all managers are like that. You extrapolate your slow and unworthy experience to everybody else. The point is, there are almost no single time events in enterprise. Everything you do, somebody will have to do again, tomorrow, a few days from now, or a year later. So, if you do the things your way, others will have to repeat what you did (or you, or worse, somebody new who knows nothing about it but could get your script with simple Redmine search along with some 'historical records' - read the TMMM and see how communication/tutoring is important - feel free to watch Galaxy Quest later) and that is not a nice thing to do in a company - you are wasting our time, resources, customers etc., on the long run: https://xkcd.com/974/ https://xkcd.com/974/ You can do whatever the fuck you want in the company of your grandpa, but its about time you sysadmins understand that good sysadmining means understanding the code concepts and development tools, and ability to script in the middle of the night. Nobody will ever ask you to write Gherkin tests, Performanse test, unit tests, integration tests, to know OO patterns etc... But in my team I will demand you know how to write 50-100 line scripts. If you can't do that, then you are emberresment for your proffession. Good time to quote Jeffrey Snover: "GUI-only, Click-Next, no-value-add Admins will be replaced with a new type of Admin - the kind that greet you the lobby". When you start to experience this paradigm shift, you will soon find yourself thinking about how did you live before that, and maybe even buy me a beer for letting you know that you can improve.

vacri 10y ago
>> Clearly you're not going to be working on bugfixes, so why should it be deployed? > What makes you say that ? "Do not compromise". That's what "do not compromise" means. If you do your work without getting those things you have demanded, then you have compromised. > And half of the world likes Kim Kardashian so what ? My point was that I don't pride myself on being a BOFH. Apparently it's not okay to say "I get along with colleagues", but it's totally okay to say "I make the standards that people in other companies follow like groupies!". Sure you do, mate. Sure you do. > You are not being proffesional then. You demand time of others to do your work, because, hej, you do your best, right ? When I say "Hey, devs, this error is appearing in the logs on production - the logs you wrote for the application you wrote - please look at it", the one who is not being professional is the one who says "I'm not going to look at it until you troubleshoot the issue to the degree that you can write a script that replicates the error". > and ability to script in the middle of the night You mean the time that devs are never around? It's a bit rich you complaining of sysadmins 'not working after hours'. > But in my team I will demand you know how to write 50-100 line scripts. If you can't do that, then you are emberresment for your proffession. a) Even if English is not your first language, if you're accusing someone of being unprofessional, learn to spell the word. It undermines your jibe when you can't spell an insult about professionalism. b) I can write the scripts. Clearly your troubleshooting is so atrophied that you can't see that I'm talking about the process and incumbent knowledge, not the ability to code. Yes, I write scripts, but no, I don't know what internal code doo-dad you devs thought to change in your last stand-up and pushed through. Why the fuck should the guy who is not intimately familiar with the codebase be the fucker that has to waste their time hunting the snark, then coding up a test for what is, to them, a (somewhat) black box? > GUI-only, Click-Next, no-value-add Admins will be replaced with a new type of Admin Again, fuck you too. I live in terminals. You're the lazy guy that wants everyone else to do the work. I'm saying that the person who knows the application should write the replicator script - you're saying the person who reports the issue should write it. God knows how you take a bug report from a non-technical person. I guess it just gets auto-marked WONTFIX. Certainly you've learned more about the politics than the technical aspects of the industry. "I write stuff the whole country uses!" carries much less cachet when it's a small Balkan state known more for nepotism than for a strong technical sector. Especially when you also say "you can't force anything on someone working in gov", given that government software projects are rarely known for their excellence. But keep on bragging, eventually you'll find someone who listens to the brag rather than the technical merits.