4 ms·

> the moment you arrive regardless of who you are or where you come from (to some degree) you are an American Unless you were Irish, Italian, Jewish, African,

by mattm 10y ago

> the moment you arrive regardless of who you are or where you come from (to some degree) you are an American Unless you were Irish, Italian, Jewish, African, Middle Eastern, Muslim, Japanese, Mexican... Don't pretend that the US is somehow morally superior in the way they have treated immigrants in the past and tidy.

dogma1138 10y ago
Don't confuse individual racism with national identity. To be a French or Dutch is very different than being an American. No one is pretending that the US is some paradise without prejudice but once you take the oath of allegiance you are an American regardless of your background.
- ralfn 10y ago
  As a dutch person ive heard this complaint as well. Although we dont really understand how it comes they dont feel like Dutch, the remark is common enough that there has to be something there. I do want to add that strong social security doesnt seem to help with integration. I think part of the success of the US together with generational patience, is that to make a living you have to play along. So any economic mismatch is corrected by "force". Whereas here you can get a situation where the cultural values and habits that do not econonically fit (like raising your daughters to be housewives) are essentially supported by the welfare state, creating the opposite effect of how it is intended.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    It should not be taken as a complaint, it's just what it is. New world nations were founded on the premise of immigration and building a better world for yourself, people joke about the American dream but to some extent that is true. Being an American or even a Canadian is more about the future and what you make out of yourself. Being Dutch, German, French or Italian or many other nations is more about the past, you are who you are based on where you come from. I'm not sure that this can change, nor do I necessarily think it should change, every nation and every nationality has it's own unique definition many of those are based on shared heritage and history which is tied to ethnic and familial roots. It's "easy" to become a Dutch citizen but it's nearly impossible to become a Dutch national, in the US there is very little distinction since virtually everyone there is a migrant at some point or another, and while if we go back to the stone age you may also call European migrants for the US it's much more recent history. The majority of the US population is 5 or less generations "American", compare it to the average Dutch or French native family and you get quite a different story.
- vilmosi 10y ago
  >>> Don't confuse individual racism with national identity I don't believe he's talking about individual racism but systematic racism employed by the US government, which historically preferred people from a certain background. Italians and Irish people weren't even considered white. Chinatowns were basically invented in the US because Asian immigrants wouldn't (or not allowed to) integrate.

by mattm 10y ago

dogma1138 10y ago

Don't confuse individual racism with national identity. To be a French or Dutch is very different than being an American. No one is pretending that the US is some paradise without prejudice but once you take the oath of allegiance you are an American regardless of your background.

ralfn 10y ago
As a dutch person ive heard this complaint as well. Although we dont really understand how it comes they dont feel like Dutch, the remark is common enough that there has to be something there. I do want to add that strong social security doesnt seem to help with integration. I think part of the success of the US together with generational patience, is that to make a living you have to play along. So any economic mismatch is corrected by "force". Whereas here you can get a situation where the cultural values and habits that do not econonically fit (like raising your daughters to be housewives) are essentially supported by the welfare state, creating the opposite effect of how it is intended.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  It should not be taken as a complaint, it's just what it is. New world nations were founded on the premise of immigration and building a better world for yourself, people joke about the American dream but to some extent that is true. Being an American or even a Canadian is more about the future and what you make out of yourself. Being Dutch, German, French or Italian or many other nations is more about the past, you are who you are based on where you come from. I'm not sure that this can change, nor do I necessarily think it should change, every nation and every nationality has it's own unique definition many of those are based on shared heritage and history which is tied to ethnic and familial roots. It's "easy" to become a Dutch citizen but it's nearly impossible to become a Dutch national, in the US there is very little distinction since virtually everyone there is a migrant at some point or another, and while if we go back to the stone age you may also call European migrants for the US it's much more recent history. The majority of the US population is 5 or less generations "American", compare it to the average Dutch or French native family and you get quite a different story.
vilmosi 10y ago
>>> Don't confuse individual racism with national identity I don't believe he's talking about individual racism but systematic racism employed by the US government, which historically preferred people from a certain background. Italians and Irish people weren't even considered white. Chinatowns were basically invented in the US because Asian immigrants wouldn't (or not allowed to) integrate.