3 ms·

Rude, No. Lazy, yes.

by rick_2047 16y ago

seabee 16y ago
How is telling a group "I have made no effort to do this task, can you guys do this for me" not rude?
- rick_2047 16y ago
  > I'm having a hard time writing a code for this one. I tried several > times, but I can't get it to work properly. I live in Japan and I take > an online C++ course. The instructor lives in the US so whenever I am > awake, he's asleep. Therefore, I cannot contact him directly when I > need help. I have to get this program up and running ASAP. I tried > searching everywhere for help, but there's none except for this group. > My textbook isn't much of a help either. I WILL GREATLY APPRECIATE THE > HELP I WILL GET! This is what he said. And trust me I have seen people struggle with writing a function to add two numbers after taking a college course of 1 year in C. I don't think he didn't try at all.
  - mseebach 16y ago
    The way he presents the problem gives no point of reference for a nice person to say "oh, I see where you misunderstood what foo does" and make it a learning experience. He could, for example, have included one of the several some-what working attempts. The only "good" answers to such a request are a: here's the code and b: lesson one, here's how a for-loop works. Since his textbook doesn't help, option b doesn't seem viable. Rude, lazy, it's a fine line, I suppose. Being lazy in front of strangers you're asking for help is perhaps not rude, but doesn't exactly scream for a super-constructive response.
    - stralep 16y ago
      His "C: The Complete Reference" textbook? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1339884 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1339884 :)
      - Silhouette 16y ago
        Ah, yes. Another little piece of comp.lang.* lore: the expression "Bullschildt" was not invented for nothing. See also his annotated version of the official C standard, which at the time it was published contained not only Schildt's comments but also the complete text of the standard itself. The standard was available from the international standards bodies for a small fortune, yet the annotated version was available in bookshops for a modest fraction of the cost. It was widely speculated that the difference in price reflected the value added by Schildt's comments.
  - kabdib 16y ago
    Perhaps the key is "ASAP" -- he waited until the last minute, then realized he was in trouble with a deadline. Programming takes time as well as understanding and effort. [I always finished my assignments early. I learned not to mention this, because I was beset with demands of the "help me with this" nature, where the people needing help really just needed to do the work. Of course, towards the end of the semester, with a week left and three projects remaining and a /really/ loaded mainframe -- a Univac 1108 in my case -- with turnarond time measured in hours, well, this was beyond pathetic or poignant, it was simple stupidity for them to expect that they could do that much work in so little time.]
  - Silhouette 16y ago
    > This is what he said. The problem is, these groups get dozens of posts like that every week. Most of them are probably just lies, as you can tell because the posters disappear when asked politely to show what they have come up with so far. There are people on those groups who volunteer their time to help others, but there is only so much time to go around. There are plenty of people who have made a real effort and, per the FAQs, post the results they have so far to demonstrate this. It is entirely fair that the volunteers should want to prioritise helping these people instead.
  - dkarl 16y ago
    And trust me I have seen people struggle with writing a function to add two numbers after taking a college course of 1 year in C. Think about how they got so far while remaining so helpless. If someone convinces you that they're working really hard and trying to be independent, yet their helplessness proves they have a long history of being dependent and getting credit for other people's work, then odds are they're just good actors. Or they're fooling themselves. Either way, don't waste your time. I know that's harsh on people who actually are trying to turn themselves around, but they should expect to weather some initial skepticism after coasting for so long.

Rude, No. Lazy, yes.

seabee 16y ago

How is telling a group "I have made no effort to do this task, can you guys do this for me" not rude?

rick_2047 16y ago
> I'm having a hard time writing a code for this one. I tried several > times, but I can't get it to work properly. I live in Japan and I take > an online C++ course. The instructor lives in the US so whenever I am > awake, he's asleep. Therefore, I cannot contact him directly when I > need help. I have to get this program up and running ASAP. I tried > searching everywhere for help, but there's none except for this group. > My textbook isn't much of a help either. I WILL GREATLY APPRECIATE THE > HELP I WILL GET! This is what he said. And trust me I have seen people struggle with writing a function to add two numbers after taking a college course of 1 year in C. I don't think he didn't try at all.
- mseebach 16y ago
  The way he presents the problem gives no point of reference for a nice person to say "oh, I see where you misunderstood what foo does" and make it a learning experience. He could, for example, have included one of the several some-what working attempts. The only "good" answers to such a request are a: here's the code and b: lesson one, here's how a for-loop works. Since his textbook doesn't help, option b doesn't seem viable. Rude, lazy, it's a fine line, I suppose. Being lazy in front of strangers you're asking for help is perhaps not rude, but doesn't exactly scream for a super-constructive response.
  - stralep 16y ago
    His "C: The Complete Reference" textbook? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1339884 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1339884 :)
    - Silhouette 16y ago
      Ah, yes. Another little piece of comp.lang.* lore: the expression "Bullschildt" was not invented for nothing. See also his annotated version of the official C standard, which at the time it was published contained not only Schildt's comments but also the complete text of the standard itself. The standard was available from the international standards bodies for a small fortune, yet the annotated version was available in bookshops for a modest fraction of the cost. It was widely speculated that the difference in price reflected the value added by Schildt's comments.
- kabdib 16y ago
  Perhaps the key is "ASAP" -- he waited until the last minute, then realized he was in trouble with a deadline. Programming takes time as well as understanding and effort. [I always finished my assignments early. I learned not to mention this, because I was beset with demands of the "help me with this" nature, where the people needing help really just needed to do the work. Of course, towards the end of the semester, with a week left and three projects remaining and a /really/ loaded mainframe -- a Univac 1108 in my case -- with turnarond time measured in hours, well, this was beyond pathetic or poignant, it was simple stupidity for them to expect that they could do that much work in so little time.]
- Silhouette 16y ago
  > This is what he said. The problem is, these groups get dozens of posts like that every week. Most of them are probably just lies, as you can tell because the posters disappear when asked politely to show what they have come up with so far. There are people on those groups who volunteer their time to help others, but there is only so much time to go around. There are plenty of people who have made a real effort and, per the FAQs, post the results they have so far to demonstrate this. It is entirely fair that the volunteers should want to prioritise helping these people instead.
- dkarl 16y ago
  And trust me I have seen people struggle with writing a function to add two numbers after taking a college course of 1 year in C. Think about how they got so far while remaining so helpless. If someone convinces you that they're working really hard and trying to be independent, yet their helplessness proves they have a long history of being dependent and getting credit for other people's work, then odds are they're just good actors. Or they're fooling themselves. Either way, don't waste your time. I know that's harsh on people who actually are trying to turn themselves around, but they should expect to weather some initial skepticism after coasting for so long.