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edit: -deleted- this thread has been moved from the front-page, back 5 pages. There is no point making (nor leaving) good arguments in dead threads that no one

edit: -deleted- this thread has been moved from the front-page, back 5 pages. There is no point making (nor leaving) good arguments in dead threads that no one can see nor take part in.

Artemis2 10y ago
Source?
rhblake 10y ago
Erosion of rights, eh? My country, Sweden, doesn't have a constitutional court; possibly because of some strange belief that our politicians can't make bad laws. (The Swedish supreme court cannot strike down laws, only interpret them.) The European Court of Justice is essentially the only thing that's stopping the Swedish government from extending mass surveillance even further. E.g., in 2014 the court ruled that mass data retention was violating basic human rights, killing the data retention directive. The Swedish government wanted to keep doing this anyway so they interpreted the ruling quite creatively, concluding that the Swedish implementation of the directive wasn't "bad enough", and forced ISPs/telcos to continue with mass data retention. This was challenged by a Swedish telco and right before Christmas the ECJ ruled in the telco's favor -- and then finally Swedish ISPs could (well, had to!) stop this particular form of surveillance. So, I'm happy to be in the EU, for that reason and many other reasons.
adrinavarro 10y ago
Huh? It's about creating an identity, a single market, and in the process, creating peace. I don't feel it is attempting to destroy national identity, if anything, it allows it to thrive (as long as it is compatible with the EU idea). Same goes with individual and national rights. EU policy provides a common framework, and if anything, it only overpowers states in favour of its citizens (see ECJ).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- krona 10y ago
  > It's about creating an identity Sorry, that sounds like socialist nonsense. > A single market The single market was and is designed for a collection of industrialized nations that no longer exist. 2/3 of the EU economy today is driven by services (80% in the UK) and yet there is no single market in services worthy of the name. Even the EU commission admits that the single market is a dysfunctional mess; of course their answer to the productivity problem Europe has is 'more single market!' > and in the process, creating peace. It's only been through the interests of the US that peace has been maintained. The expansionary EU threatens that. > it only overpowers states in favour of its citizens In what world is it a good idea that unelected and unaccountable judges can overpower the elected and accountable governments of member states?
dkb 10y ago
Thank you.
dkb 10y ago
powertower, If I recall properly, I think that the nature/idea of the EU was from the nazis originally, is that right? Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-nazis-created-basic-plan-for-the-european-union-ukip-mep-gerard-batten-says-a7032221.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-...

edit: -deleted- this thread has been moved from the front-page, back 5 pages. There is no point making (nor leaving) good arguments in dead threads that no one can see nor take part in.

Artemis2 10y ago

Source?

rhblake 10y ago

Erosion of rights, eh? My country, Sweden, doesn't have a constitutional court; possibly because of some strange belief that our politicians can't make bad laws. (The Swedish supreme court cannot strike down laws, only interpret them.) The European Court of Justice is essentially the only thing that's stopping the Swedish government from extending mass surveillance even further. E.g., in 2014 the court ruled that mass data retention was violating basic human rights, killing the data retention directive. The Swedish government wanted to keep doing this anyway so they interpreted the ruling quite creatively, concluding that the Swedish implementation of the directive wasn't "bad enough", and forced ISPs/telcos to continue with mass data retention. This was challenged by a Swedish telco and right before Christmas the ECJ ruled in the telco's favor -- and then finally Swedish ISPs could (well, had to!) stop this particular form of surveillance. So, I'm happy to be in the EU, for that reason and many other reasons.

adrinavarro 10y ago

Huh? It's about creating an identity, a single market, and in the process, creating peace. I don't feel it is attempting to destroy national identity, if anything, it allows it to thrive (as long as it is compatible with the EU idea). Same goes with individual and national rights. EU policy provides a common framework, and if anything, it only overpowers states in favour of its citizens (see ECJ).

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
krona 10y ago
> It's about creating an identity Sorry, that sounds like socialist nonsense. > A single market The single market was and is designed for a collection of industrialized nations that no longer exist. 2/3 of the EU economy today is driven by services (80% in the UK) and yet there is no single market in services worthy of the name. Even the EU commission admits that the single market is a dysfunctional mess; of course their answer to the productivity problem Europe has is 'more single market!' > and in the process, creating peace. It's only been through the interests of the US that peace has been maintained. The expansionary EU threatens that. > it only overpowers states in favour of its citizens In what world is it a good idea that unelected and unaccountable judges can overpower the elected and accountable governments of member states?

dkb 10y ago

Thank you.

dkb 10y ago

powertower, If I recall properly, I think that the nature/idea of the EU was from the nazis originally, is that right? Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-nazis-created-basic-plan-for-the-european-union-ukip-mep-gerard-batten-says-a7032221.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-...