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There's a demand, so there's a market. The problem is other people buy stolen bikes. I would also call those thieves, even if they don't do the stealing by them

There's a demand, so there's a market. The problem is other people buy stolen bikes. I would also call those thieves, even if they don't do the stealing by themselves. As long as one buys something without original papers, they support the guys who do the stealing itself. PS: 2 of my bikes were stolen.

dpark 10y ago
I have no papers for the bike I bought brand new at full retail from a bike shop. Who keeps "papers" for a bike?
- peller 10y ago
  They probably just mean proof of purchase. The other important bit is the serial number (analogous to a car's VIN), often found under the bottom bracket.[0] You can (and should) register it with the local police, and there are a few online registries too. It's not an effective deterrent[1], but it's better than nothing. (I've had a bike returned to me because I registered it. That was before I learned to always use Kryptonite U-locks.) [0] https://bikeindex.org/serials https://bikeindex.org/serials [1] Wrapping your bike in tape, or otherwise making it look like a POS, is the way to go if you live in a theft-heavy location.
  - MagnumOpus 10y ago
    > always use Kryptonite U-locks Don't. My bike was stolen by rapidly sawing (dremeling?) through a Kryptolok in broad daylight in a place with some of the most heavy law enforcement presence in Europe. Their locks are much weaker than their marketing.
    - dpark 10y ago
      What locks are stronger?
    - peller 10y ago
      Sorry to hear that. It's the strongest lock I've come across[0], but yea, once power tools come into play I can't imagine much of anything standing up to metal cut off grinder. What do you use now to secure your ride? [0] http://www.kryptonitelock.com/content/kryt-us/en/products/product-information/current-key/997986.html http://www.kryptonitelock.com/content/kryt-us/en/products/pr...
    - sliken 10y ago
      Kryptonite are plenty strong, they are a good deterent, but not theft proof by any means. I've talked with people who's job was to cut bike locks. It was generally something like cables, 15 seconds. Offbrand u-locks 45 seconds and 1/3rd of a cutting wheel, name brands minute in a half and a cutting wheel. Then the "new york style" heavy ulocks were on the order of 5 minutes and 3 wheels. Certainly there are bigger cutting discs, if you are willing to make a bunch of noise and sparks you can cut them more quickly.
  - dpark 10y ago
    Yeah, I didn't keep any paperwork or proof of purchase unless it's in a random box of junk somewhere. It didn't even occur to me to do so. I probably kept the sales papers for a little while in case I needed it for a warranty claim, but if I have them now, I don't know where.
- revelation 10y ago
  Well, not you? The receipt typically has the frame number and it's your proof of ownership. You should keep it just so you can get your money back from insurance if it is stolen..
  - dpark 10y ago
    I never even registered my bike for insurance. It didn't occur to me and I'm not sure it really crosses the threshold of value/hassle for me. The bigger point is that it's unreasonable to paint all people who buy used bikes without papers as supporting bike thieves. Anyone buying my bike would not get paperwork with the sale, but the bike is not stolen.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > The bigger point is that it's unreasonable to paint all people who buy used bikes without papers as supporting bike thieves. It's absolutely accurate to portray them that way; sure, there are some used, no-papers bikes that are not stolen, but people willing to buy such bikes are what creates financial support for bike thieves, since all stolen bikes sold meet that description, and if people weren't willing to buy bikes in that condition stolen bikes couldn't be sold.
      - revelation 10y ago
        I've had a bike stolen where the frame manufacturer offers a simple online service to report a bike as stolen. There is zero excuse for anyone buying it to not check the number that is engraved onto the frame, not to mention with police who similarly have the serial number in a database. Imagine if people had to drive around in creaking beater cars with leaking roofs because you couldn't store anything nicer anywhere but a garage with surveillance, and even then if someone finds out you have a nice car in a garage, there will be a breakin. That's pretty much the situation with bikes, and police simply shrug at what in most cities is very much organized crime and a huge quality of life issue.
      - dpark 10y ago
        > but people willing to buy such bikes are what creates financial support for bike thieves, since all stolen bikes sold meet that description All stolen bikes also have two wheels. I guess buying a bike with two wheels also creates a market for stolen bikes? This is ridiculous. No one without papers can sell a bike according to you. I get that bike theft is a problem but you don't solve it by blaming innocent people. A lot of legitimate bikes are sold without papers.

dpark 10y ago

I have no papers for the bike I bought brand new at full retail from a bike shop. Who keeps "papers" for a bike?

peller 10y ago
They probably just mean proof of purchase. The other important bit is the serial number (analogous to a car's VIN), often found under the bottom bracket.[0] You can (and should) register it with the local police, and there are a few online registries too. It's not an effective deterrent[1], but it's better than nothing. (I've had a bike returned to me because I registered it. That was before I learned to always use Kryptonite U-locks.) [0] https://bikeindex.org/serials https://bikeindex.org/serials [1] Wrapping your bike in tape, or otherwise making it look like a POS, is the way to go if you live in a theft-heavy location.
- MagnumOpus 10y ago
  > always use Kryptonite U-locks Don't. My bike was stolen by rapidly sawing (dremeling?) through a Kryptolok in broad daylight in a place with some of the most heavy law enforcement presence in Europe. Their locks are much weaker than their marketing.
  - dpark 10y ago
    What locks are stronger?
  - peller 10y ago
    Sorry to hear that. It's the strongest lock I've come across[0], but yea, once power tools come into play I can't imagine much of anything standing up to metal cut off grinder. What do you use now to secure your ride? [0] http://www.kryptonitelock.com/content/kryt-us/en/products/product-information/current-key/997986.html http://www.kryptonitelock.com/content/kryt-us/en/products/pr...
  - sliken 10y ago
    Kryptonite are plenty strong, they are a good deterent, but not theft proof by any means. I've talked with people who's job was to cut bike locks. It was generally something like cables, 15 seconds. Offbrand u-locks 45 seconds and 1/3rd of a cutting wheel, name brands minute in a half and a cutting wheel. Then the "new york style" heavy ulocks were on the order of 5 minutes and 3 wheels. Certainly there are bigger cutting discs, if you are willing to make a bunch of noise and sparks you can cut them more quickly.
- dpark 10y ago
  Yeah, I didn't keep any paperwork or proof of purchase unless it's in a random box of junk somewhere. It didn't even occur to me to do so. I probably kept the sales papers for a little while in case I needed it for a warranty claim, but if I have them now, I don't know where.
revelation 10y ago
Well, not you? The receipt typically has the frame number and it's your proof of ownership. You should keep it just so you can get your money back from insurance if it is stolen..
- dpark 10y ago
  I never even registered my bike for insurance. It didn't occur to me and I'm not sure it really crosses the threshold of value/hassle for me. The bigger point is that it's unreasonable to paint all people who buy used bikes without papers as supporting bike thieves. Anyone buying my bike would not get paperwork with the sale, but the bike is not stolen.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > The bigger point is that it's unreasonable to paint all people who buy used bikes without papers as supporting bike thieves. It's absolutely accurate to portray them that way; sure, there are some used, no-papers bikes that are not stolen, but people willing to buy such bikes are what creates financial support for bike thieves, since all stolen bikes sold meet that description, and if people weren't willing to buy bikes in that condition stolen bikes couldn't be sold.
    - revelation 10y ago
      I've had a bike stolen where the frame manufacturer offers a simple online service to report a bike as stolen. There is zero excuse for anyone buying it to not check the number that is engraved onto the frame, not to mention with police who similarly have the serial number in a database. Imagine if people had to drive around in creaking beater cars with leaking roofs because you couldn't store anything nicer anywhere but a garage with surveillance, and even then if someone finds out you have a nice car in a garage, there will be a breakin. That's pretty much the situation with bikes, and police simply shrug at what in most cities is very much organized crime and a huge quality of life issue.
    - dpark 10y ago
      > but people willing to buy such bikes are what creates financial support for bike thieves, since all stolen bikes sold meet that description All stolen bikes also have two wheels. I guess buying a bike with two wheels also creates a market for stolen bikes? This is ridiculous. No one without papers can sell a bike according to you. I get that bike theft is a problem but you don't solve it by blaming innocent people. A lot of legitimate bikes are sold without papers.